# A Cheap Stunt by Ross of future-systems.com **URL:** \ **Category:** C2\ **Created:** [August 13, 2008, 9:58am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161 "2008-08-13T09:58:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TFPI](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/tfpi/32/1372_2.png) [@TFPI](https://forums.collective2.com/u/TFPI)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 9:58am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161/1 "2008-08-13T09:58:21Z")
A while back, Ross (of [future-systems.com](http://future-systems.com)) subscribed to my system while I offered free trials only to post a bad review (this is the reason I no longer offer free trials). Every so often, when my system is doing very well, he re-posts his bad review (same exact text) so that it is at the top of the new reviews list. This deletes my rebuttal, and I have to repost it. This also makes it look like his review is “new.” Is there anything that can be done about this? It unfairly detracts from my system. Also, I can’t even consider offering free trial as long as unscrupulous vendors such as Ross can give reviews as genuine subscribers. ---
**Author:** ![GilbertArevalo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/gilbertarevalo/32/193_2.png) [@GilbertArevalo](https://forums.collective2.com/u/GilbertArevalo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 10:27am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161/2 "2008-08-13T10:27:38Z")
Cari, His antics have affected my potential business as well. When I found out about C2 from a posting at EliteTrader about 14.5 months ago, I stated my views. Namely that upon analysis, precious few systems here stood the test of time with decent attributes and that I’d be glad to participate - since I have had really good success for 8-10 years producing a consistent high annual average! Then one statement made at EliteTrader (it shouldn’t take long to move up the ranks into the top 10 systems) struck a nerve in him. Ever since, he has berated everything I do in the same unscrupulous manner. The result? I am in the “Best Systems” list and top 10 by annual average for 4+ month systems - but his 100% ignore rating has still swayed virtually no views in said period…while HIGH popularity is common amongst all other similarly-rated systems. The damage is done, yet the only consolation I have is that in due time my systems will catch on, since they are built around longevity. That does not excuse the sickening behavior of this hypocritical pariah who himself has been tracked at TimerTrac with abysmal results! Regards, Gilbert [LINKSYSTEM\_31082140] ---
**Author:** ![Index](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/db5fbb/32.png) [@Index](https://forums.collective2.com/u/Index)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 11:08am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161/3 "2008-08-13T11:08:52Z")
The reviw belongs 100% to me, Cari. It belongs 0% to you. You have zero say over whether I change it even every hour on the hour. _:as long as unscrupulous vendors such as Ross can give reviews as genuine subscribers._ You have tried to falsify commentary from at least one other person, who pretended to be a disinterested party. So you can drop the little miss innocent act. ---
**Author:** ![Index](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/db5fbb/32.png) [@Index](https://forums.collective2.com/u/Index)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 11:22am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161/4 "2008-08-13T11:22:42Z")
I will let others do the talking: _Gilbert - I venture to say the reason Kingdom Capital went into “stop losses” mode is not because of the multiple distribution days from the NASDAQ, SP500 and the DOW… but rather because Kingdom Capital chose to be on the wrong side of the market at the wrong time. Your statement seemingly implies that your initial investment decisions were correct, and the market was incorrect. I’m not sure why you’d further impune your already tarnished reputation by resorting to such rhetoric. This is clearly a case of the tail wagging the dog. -Lew Payne_ _--------------_ _I think you should change your name from “paysen$e” to “makesNOsen$e”. Sorry long rambling paragraphs will lose the reader’s interest if there is no clear point buried in there. ([http://elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1889036#post1889036](http://elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1889036#post1889036) )_ _--------------------_ _Yes, Mr. Hedge Fund Manager, oh wait, that’s right you are also the CEO…(any other grandiose self personalities you would like to add?) We all know you are far too important and busy to waste your time here explaining why you have failed to live up to the performance standards that you yourself stated in when you created the thread: “very consistent, comparibly low risk approach to exponential growth that launches into the stratosphere in a very short while.” Or to explain why you can’t replicate your amazing performance on C2…oh that’s right, after suffering a 20% drawdown on your allegedly “low-risk” system you decided to abandon your time-tested strategy and just start trading futures on a lark, thus blowing out your account. (Yes, Mr. Hedge Fund Manager, oh wait, that’s right you are also the CEO…(any other grandiose self personalities you would like to add?)_ _We all know you are far too important and busy to waste your time here explaining why you have failed to live up to the performance standards that you yourself stated in when you created the thread: "very consistent, comparibly low risk approach to exponential growth that launches into the stratosphere in a very short while.“_ _Or to explain why you can’t replicate your amazing performance on C2…oh that’s right, after suffering a 20% drawdown on your allegedly “low-risk” system you decided to abandon your time-tested strategy and just start trading futures on a lark, thus blowing out your account. ([http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94764&perpage=6&pagenumber=78](http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94764&perpage=6&pagenumber=78))_ _------------------_ _In response to post by Index of 4/18/08 (11:58)_ _Ah, someone else from EliteTrader understands you well:_ _I think you should change your name from “paysen$e” to “makesNOsen$e”. Sorry long rambling paragraphs will lose the reader’s interest if there is no clear point buried in there. …_ _---------------------_ _Or how about this one?_ _Yes, Mr. Hedge Fund Manager, oh wait, that’s right you are also the CEO…(any other grandiose self personalities you would like to add?)_ _We all know you are far too important and busy to waste your time here explaining why you have failed to live up to the performance standards that you yourself stated in when you created the thread: “very consistent, comparibly low risk approach to exponential growth that launches into the stratosphere in a very short while.” Or to explain why you can’t replicate your amazing performance on C2…oh that’s right, after suffering a 20% drawdown on your allegedly “low-risk” system you decided to abandon your time-tested strategy and just start trading futures on a lark, thus blowing out your account. ([http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94764&perpage=6&pagenumber=78](http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94764&perpage=6&pagenumber=78))_ _-------------------------------_ _Or this one? This is 3 different people who know you are full of it:_ _What a bunch of useless drivel and bullshit._ _Nice wank job thread you got going here._ _[http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=6ce411ef60061a326db6da097d9bc7f8&threadid=94764&perpage=6&pagenumber=77](http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=6ce411ef60061a326db6da097d9bc7f8&threadid=94764&perpage=6&pagenumber=77)_ _--------------------------------_ _Or this one? IN response to one of your posts, someone said: I cut and paste your post into Google Maps and I still could not find your point. ([http://elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125012&perpage=40&pagenumber=2](http://elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125012&perpage=40&pagenumber=2))_ _---------------------------------_ _“Gilbert, I’m just curious, do you expect us to take you seriously?” B. Wolinsky_ _---------------_ _\> We called this last Stock Market “top” - within days_ _\> We have called all past market bottoms - within days_ _I was thinking I should leave you alone, but this is just total BS._ _You were in “caution” right before the last strong rally, and you_ _went into “green light” right at the top. Calling the top a few days_ _later, after many of your readers may have had their asses kicked,_ _is nothing to brag about. S. Cook…_ _------------------_ _\> Your “selective reading” is causing your mistaken responses._ _Again, you are the one selective here. You have the audacity to claim_ _to have called the top. Next time just trade it and let C2 show your trade. This is why C2 is cool. You can’t change your track record after the fact. S. Cook_ _--------------------_ _You are touting your great calls. You said you “called the top and you_ _called the bottom”. If that were so you could easily have doubled your_ _account in the last few weeks or so. Things at this time are just a bit worse for you than it may seem:_ _”…Compound Annual % -58.6% over 68 days_ _Sharpe Ratio -3.465_ _Max Drawdown 21.08% (20070530 to 20070726)"_ _This is simply C2’s “Truth”. You shouldn’t blame me. S Cook…_ _ **Sorry, GA. I was one of many here and on EliteTrader. You just keep hoping time will erase your early reputation…** _ ---
**Author:** ![TFPI](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/tfpi/32/1372_2.png) [@TFPI](https://forums.collective2.com/u/TFPI)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 11:26am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161/5 "2008-08-13T11:26:11Z")
It’s amazing, you are ignored by 108% of all people using ignore. Perhaps desicrating someone’s system with a bad review (how would you even know, you never intended to use the system), is your only public outlet for attention. No one falsified anything. Daniel never said he was disinterested. He was very interested. He was a legitimate subscriber, and financially invested in how well the system was doing. Just because he is a friend and co-worker, doesn’t mean he wasn’t a legitimate subscriber. You are making false assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![Index](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/db5fbb/32.png) [@Index](https://forums.collective2.com/u/Index)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161/6 "2008-08-13T11:46:26Z")
Let the reader decide if Daniel was "just a subscriber" _"The basic structure was first developed by daniel reader in 1993, and uses an archetypal symbol set of eight elements. The system was further developed and researched jointly by Mr. Reader and Cari Bourette, Psy.D."_ ---
**Author:** ![TFPI](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/tfpi/32/1372_2.png) [@TFPI](https://forums.collective2.com/u/TFPI)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 11:53am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161/7 "2008-08-13T11:53:32Z")
Ross, this quote is out of context (as I have told you repeatedly in the past). "The system" being referred to in that paragraph is not a trading system. It is a philosophical system call One Wheel which is a way to view the world. What we researched together was how to categorize any event or complex system such as society or culture into the eight One Wheel categories. Daniel did not work with me in the development of the trading system application of this philosophical system. ---
**Author:** ![futurm](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/futurm/32/298_2.png) [@futurm](https://forums.collective2.com/u/futurm)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 12:04pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161/8 "2008-08-13T12:04:49Z")
Watched the movie Fountainhead last night. Ross / Index, is what the movie is all about. If anyone here isn’t on to Ross / Index yet, watch or rewatch the movie, or read the book. ---
**Author:** ![GilbertArevalo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/gilbertarevalo/32/193_2.png) [@GilbertArevalo](https://forums.collective2.com/u/GilbertArevalo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 12:33pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161/9 "2008-08-13T12:33:17Z")
- the point is, Ross, that people may not be "perfect" in their words or deeds/managing funds…but that DOES NOT excuse YOUR behavior. I mean WHO ARE YOU to talk??? Regards, Gilbert [LINKSYSTEM\_30875056] ---
**Author:** ![Index](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/db5fbb/32.png) [@Index](https://forums.collective2.com/u/Index)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 3:04pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161/10 "2008-08-13T15:04:00Z")
**Someone who does not lie through his teeth to get customers like Gilbert does** ---
**Author:** ![Index](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/db5fbb/32.png) [@Index](https://forums.collective2.com/u/Index)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161/11 "2008-08-13T15:07:14Z")
**Someone who does not lie through his teeth to get customers like Gilbert does** **Funny thing. You are angry at me for exposing your constant lies and false promises** **You are angry at the reporter, because he has attempted to dig out the truth** **Remember this post of mine?** **===================** **_I wonder if Gilbert could comment on the success of his "many subscribers on his website, some having earned over 50% for over 10 years"_** **_Until of course, he started getting independent monitoring, and for some strange reason, he has done nothing but fail during the entire length of that time…_** **_Sorry Gilbert, I know your shtick._** **_“President of an institution” (in other words, Gilbert volunteers at the local mental hospital)_** **_“many subscribers on his website, some having earned over 50% for over 10 years” (in other words, “Gee, it looked good on paper”)_** **_“Chief trader” (in other words, it takes a whole team to come up with a losing strategy)_** **_from Elitetrader, where GA is PaySense: “It shouldn’t take me long to rise to the top 10 on C2” (in other words, “bottom 10”)_** **_“THIS system should do well, as we have learned from our first” (sadly, this NEW and IMPROVED system went from $100K to $0K in rapid time)_** **_Potential subscribers should stay FAR away from this man. He will say anything to get your money._** **_and a few other hilarious prevarications…_** ---
**Author:** ![GilbertArevalo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/gilbertarevalo/32/193_2.png) [@GilbertArevalo](https://forums.collective2.com/u/GilbertArevalo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 3:15pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161/12 "2008-08-13T15:15:11Z")
Really now Ross, you just need to admit your mistakes and move on. Flaming others with bold capital text may sway a certain faction, but will do absolutely nothing for you. I’m man enough to say hey, I have fallen short…but come now - you are attacking vendors that have a bit of accomplishment. It would do you best to just give some credit where credit is due. If not for those of us blind-sided by your antics…for yourself. You are only flailing with and at yourself and we all know you can do much better than that. Regards, Gilbert [LINKSYSTEM\_30763562] ---
**Author:** ![Index](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/db5fbb/32.png) [@Index](https://forums.collective2.com/u/Index)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161/13 "2008-08-13T15:30:18Z")
accomplishment? What is your accomplishment? I have yet to see anything you have done right. you create, you gyrate and you bury systems. What is your C2 rating? I will tell you what; let us try and address the last post I made, which you completely ignored but is 100% true. Why don’t you give us some views of your trading floor, of which you are chief trader. how many traders work for you again? how about your institution. How about some street photos? Your business phone and fax. And finally Gilbert: **If you have 7 years of over 50% returns for your clients, how come when you were INDEPENDENTLY audited on C2, you fell flat on your face for so long???** (originally you said 10, but then you went back and edited it down to 7) Isn’t this why you thought you would quickly reach top 10 on C2? because you thought your paper trading would hold up under real data??? Can you answer the claims, instead of juking, jiving and changing the subject? ---
**Author:** ![GilbertArevalo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/gilbertarevalo/32/193_2.png) [@GilbertArevalo](https://forums.collective2.com/u/GilbertArevalo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161/14 "2008-08-13T16:10:16Z")
Phew! and with that I bid my adieu (I tried).gA [LINKSYSTEM\_31138456] ---
**Author:** ![Index](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/db5fbb/32.png) [@Index](https://forums.collective2.com/u/Index)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161/15 "2008-08-13T16:45:49Z")
**Gilbert** **When it is true, it is not slander.** **I expected you to bid adieu, because you know everything I said is true.** **Let us make it simple. Why don’t you post the internal business numbers of your large staff of traders. Remember? You said you are “Chief trader?” I will be happy to call all of them and assess their experience, their knowledge, their role in your corporation, your past successes. After all, as CHIEF trader, you must have 5-6 savvy people, right?** **Since you are President of an Institute, why don’t you just furnish the main switchboard number. I will contact them and gather facts on your fabulous organization. SURELY you want everyone here to know that you didn’t LIE about this, did you?** **When you turn tail and run gilbert, you are only agreeing that you have lied on pretty much everything I said, aren’t you???** That is why you stopped posting on your thread on EliteTrader. You were getting tarred and feathered, about your knowledge, about your claims, about your naive assertions. You ran out of things to say, so you said it was not worth your time, and that you were starting your own Yahoo group. There, you have more control over dissent. ---
**Author:** ![FinancialScientist](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/financialscientist/32/2268_2.png) [@FinancialScientist](https://forums.collective2.com/u/FinancialScientist)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161/16 "2008-08-13T17:58:53Z")
Just a comment about how this looks. I only see Ross’s comments, and they are valid. I doubt 108% of the people on this site don’t listen to him. ---
**Author:** ![Index](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/db5fbb/32.png) [@Index](https://forums.collective2.com/u/Index)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161/17 "2008-08-13T18:19:51Z")
Apparently I am unfair to Cari for using MY review slot how I want, and Gilbert says I am so unfair because I am speaking the truth, and he is unable and unwilling to refute. Was it so hard for him to supply contact information for his army of traders and institutional workers? An interesting day in Gotham City… ---
**Author:** ![Username](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/username/32/238_2.png) [@Username](https://forums.collective2.com/u/Username)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161/18 "2008-09-04T15:19:59Z")
Futurm \*, Are you Palsun Anand in disguise? Only he used to quote from that movie on here, the movie involved Ayn Rand another inspiration of his and the lead character in the film is called Howard Roark which was also a pseudonym of his. If not, I sincerely apologise. ---
**Author:** ![GilbertArevalo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/gilbertarevalo/32/193_2.png) [@GilbertArevalo](https://forums.collective2.com/u/GilbertArevalo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 3:24pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/a-cheap-stunt-by-ross-of-future-systems-com/3161/19 "2008-09-04T15:24:08Z")
Jon, I don’t think Palsun could keep a post to a few [sentences.gA](http://sentences.gA) [LINKSYSTEM\_31082140]