Attract HedgeFund + Institutional Capital to C2

Just wanted to put an idea out there to Matthew/Rod (C2 Founders), which is designed to attract higher net worth, and institutional capital to C2 trade leaders…

Currently, For C2 investors, there are plenty of systems to choose from, which meet the demands of many types of individuals, from complete amateurs looking for quick profits (at high risk/leverage) to the more prudent investors, who want gradual, low-risk capital growth wth minimal risk. Most systems fall between the two extremes.

What I wanted to propose, as part of C2 development going forward, is for the founders to develop a leaderboard or some kind of ‘additional’ (possibly ring-fenced) listing of strategies which meet the lower-risk, conservative investor criteria - one where C2 provide (similar to the very successful Morningstar Ratings) some kind of risk-grading or ‘stars’ out of 5 for trade-leader strategies which meet the specific needs of professional/institutional money. The objective is to attract the larger funds/pensions/insitutional capital to C2.

While I would say 90%+ of systems currently on C2 would never qualify, there are some, including one strategy which I have developed with this objective in mind (SPX Liquid Stocks), which would be of interest to higher net worths, and institutional capital…

To attract this sector, C2 would need to develop a separate leaderboard which is designed specifically for meeting these types of professional investors.

Some of the key criteria’s to take into account could be:

(1) Highest priority: The strategy should trade liquid markets only, eg., stocks which trade high volume, such as S&P 500 stocks only. Larger funds would need the liquidity in order to fill large-scale positions.

(2) Some kind of partial/full hedging of the long-portfolio with a neutralizing short position, eg., long stocks dollar value hedged by 50% short hedge using SPY ETF’s, to protect against systematic/macro risk. This is also a critical risk management criteria for institutional capital, which would also add it’s own risk management instruments to the core C2 strategy.

(3) A good consistent track record from the trade-leader, producing excess alpha returns (eg., minmum 20% better than S&P benchmark), with low drawdowns. Plus the obvious 3-6 month minimum track record.

(4) Plus any other factors C2 deem fit, to meet HNW/institutional needs.

A top 20 (or 30 or 40) leaderboard can be developed for these types of strategies, which can then be stratgically targeted specifically to the larger funds.

To compensate trade-leaders for such strategies (which would also have the added effect of attracting more intelligently structures strategies, which would heighten C2 respectability as a genuinely valuable alternative hedge-fund center for serious, risk-astute investors), C2 can develop a compensation package for the Trade-Leader as follows (example only, can be developed further)…

For every $100k attracted, the TL gets paid 3% annually (equating to $250/month). So if a fund invests $1m into a strategy, the TL would get paid $2500/mo from that investor, minus the usual C2 commission etc. This would not require any major changes to the already successful C2 payment/compensation infrastructure. This level of compensation would immediatly get the juices flowing for trade leaders to start looking at developing more professional, well-rounded liquid strategies.

To conclude…

I believe there is a large market for professional investors, including high net worths, and institutional capital out there, which I feel (I could be wrong,as I do not have all of the data) C2 is not fully tapping into…

Currently C2 leaderboards etc., have far too many strategies which are (for want of a better word) a joke - often too high risk, get-rich-quick types which abuse leverage and have too short a life to be taken seriously. This is probably a key reason C2 is not attracting this capital (yet).

However C2 has the potential with it’s existing infrastructure, to provide a platform for the better, more engaging strategy developers who meet the needs of larger funds/institutions. A deep-data leaderboard (similar in some respects to MorningStar’s fund ratings) can be created and targeted by C2 to the larger cap investors. The leaderboard can include much more key data such as Sharpe/Sortino, Alpha, etc.

For instance, the below strategy I developed trades (1) only S&P stocks for max liquidity, (2) hedged 50%-100% of the position using short SPY ETF’s, depending on market conditions and volatility, and (3) has a consistent track record (although still young), which significantly beats the S&P500, with low drawdowns, which I fully expect to continue to do so…

By developing a leaderboard, and better compensation (which I believe insitutional investors would be more than happy to pay for), it also elevates the reputation of C2 towards a much more respectable brand where funds can allocate some of their capital into up and coming trade leaders, who take key factors they demand, into account.

What do investors/trade-leaders think? Ideas…

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This is not serious. For such purposes, the track record should be at least 3-5 years old.

The idea is good, but your post is just advertising your strategy. If you write the idea why write that your system is the best and right. All the best to you.

So since you believe your system is a really good one when will you be TOS?

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IMHO TOS is overrated. I trade my systems but I can’t use TOS - too many disadvantages.
Here’s a couple reasons why:
If I trade larger size I switch between two brokers, IB is good when I trade < 1000 shares/trade and ThinkOrSwim when I trade > 1000 shares due to commission benefits. In Tos you need to have all positions in a single account.
I’ve several Portfolio Margin account accounts, none of that leverage is doable in C2s TOS so your real trading account would need to be restricted and you could not take advantage of your funds in real life which is much more important than the TOS certification.
You have to limit your trading account to just that system - can’t trade multiple systems in that account and be TOS certified, that’s a pain in the butt when it comes to tax season. I literally spend 8 hrs/year downloading various monthly statements from different brokers cause of the nbr. of trades and send them to the accountant, this would be even more pain if every system requires its own account. IB, Tastyworks, ThinkOrSwim/TDAmeritrade all time out if you have a large number of trades - the only workaround is to download the trades monthly rather than yearly. (All disadvantages to stock trading, futures are immune to this problem)
The last one is very subjective - When I follow a trading system - duration, down and return as well as equity curve are what I look at - I could care less if the person trades this in their own account if the other items look decent - but I realize that’s only my decision criteria.

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If you have a broker that is not supported by C2 then there is no way u can get TOS.

2nd is IB had a very good pricing for large volume or large traders. I have compared IB with thinkorswim/Etrade/Schwab. If you dont trade that much volume under tier pricing then regular price you are talking dollars and cents.

I have 3 Portfolio Margin accounts at IB. i have 2 strategies that uses PM with IB. dont know why that will be an issue.

in regarding trading too many accounts. just set your IB account as leader, auto follow your other broker account with your c2 IB account. that way you just trade 1 account and all your other account will follow.

Point taken on the commissions - it’s truly pennies/dollars, but it adds up at the end of the year. Having 10k or not having it is not life changing money but at the same time I’d hate to waste it.

The “issue” is the lack of leverage @ C2 compared to portfolio margin. e.g. I have two systems, the larger one is for 250k accounts here at C2.
If I trade with IB in my portfolio margin (let’s say it’s the same size 250k) I can trade about 1:5 leverage - so I have about a 1.25M in buying power. If I put that money to work your C2 TOS account will blow out cause the C2 margin is RegT - meaning you can only put 500k to work. So with that I can only trade less than half the account at IB to make TOS work which seems very restricting.

Help me understand how setting up the account as a leader helps, I also have a couple IB accounts but they are not “linked” which is double effort at tax season.

I can tell you going from fixed to tier pricing is CHEAPER than thinkorswim and etrade and schwab. fixed a little more expensive than etrade, but you SAVE so much more on 2% margin rate vs 9% margin rate anywhere else.

once you are TOS, c2 doesnt not worry much about reg-t margin. because now c2 will only trade IF IB margin calls you. TOS means you are connected to IB direct. i hope that make sense. C2 is not gonna margin call u when IB is not. there is plenty of c2 strategies at 90%+ drawdown and didnt get a margin call. I have 1 strategy im following is 100% PM and we never got a c2 margin call in 3 yrs.

regarding trade leader, you setup a IB account let say 100k as leader. You have your 2nd account with c2Broker (apex) 250k, 3rd acount with Autoshare 100k, you just tell c2 you want to autotrade your 2nd account at 250% scale and 3rd account at 100%. what ever you buy in your IB account, it will do that same in your 2nd and 3rd account. that if you want different broker than IB. and also having 2nd and 3rd account, you can trade other stuff and buy other investments without effecting your strategy and subscribers.

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Thx Osutai - you’re a wealth of knowledge !!!

The client can scale the system from 10% to 100% of the leader of the trade?

you can scale 10% - 300%

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