# Auto Scaling Zip4x **URL:** \ **Category:** C2\ **Created:** [April 11, 2016, 7:01am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/auto-scaling-zip4x/8587 "2016-04-11T07:01:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GrimReaper](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/grimreaper/32/1487_2.png) [@GrimReaper](https://forums.collective2.com/u/GrimReaper)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 7:01am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/auto-scaling-zip4x/8587/1 "2016-04-11T07:01:14Z")
Hi, I have a 25k account and am trying to run some math here to determine the proper auto scaling amount on his system which trades with a capital of 1.8 million dollars. What would be the most optimal scaling in relation to that number with a 25k account? Thx ---
**Author:** ![GrimReaper](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/grimreaper/32/1487_2.png) [@GrimReaper](https://forums.collective2.com/u/GrimReaper)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 7:04am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/auto-scaling-zip4x/8587/2 "2016-04-11T07:04:46Z")
I put scaling at 1% but still had margin issues with certain currencies and IB. I am on a reg t margin account with about 40:1 leverage on your top pairs. I still don’t know if I am maximizing the system with my account size though or am I leaving some money on the table. ---
**Author:** ![GrimReaper](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/grimreaper/32/1487_2.png) [@GrimReaper](https://forums.collective2.com/u/GrimReaper)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 7:08am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/auto-scaling-zip4x/8587/3 "2016-04-11T07:08:05Z")
NZD/USD for example is up around 90 pips and pnl is $60-$65 but with a 25k account I think I should be leveraged a bit more with that kind of move. None of this is making a lot of sense to me yet. ---
**Author:** ![BBTC](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/bbtc/32/1487_2.png) [@BBTC](https://forums.collective2.com/u/BBTC)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 8:19am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/auto-scaling-zip4x/8587/4 "2016-04-11T08:19:33Z")
I agree to use 1 percents in your case but keep in mind, when he added more position, it is not necessary you were automatically added more positions because your scale is only 1%. This is something you have to add position manually. Make sure you don’t over trade. You should expect, he will add more positions ---
**Author:** ![MatthewKolton](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/matthewkolton/32/238_2.png) [@MatthewKolton](https://forums.collective2.com/u/MatthewKolton)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2016, 4:31am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/auto-scaling-zip4x/8587/5 "2016-04-13T04:31:13Z")
JarrettCasesa, Thanks for starting this topic. I’m interested, even eager, to subscribe to Zip4x, but have been struggling with how to set the scaling for over a week now. I also have same money in an IB account and would use auto-trading. I did some math in a spreadsheet and was thinking I’d be OK at a 5% scaling, but now I guess 1% is safest. I’m stuck wondering if, with $1,800,000+, is Zip4x is a fit for the small money subscribers just starting out on collective2 and/or with forex. As a backward looking sense check to see if it’s worth the subscription fee with $25k account at 1% scaling, I did a quick analysis using the Closed Trades CSV on the Zip4x page. I took the past 12 months trades - 482 closed trades from 4/24/15 - 3/31/16. Perhaps there are some open trades in this time frame that I’m not able to see because I’m not yet a subscriber - those would be excluded from this assumption. At 100% scale the P/L on those trades is a very impressive $1,245,807. If, hypothetically, a subscriber used a 1% scale over the same time period the PL would be $12,458. This assumes linear relationship in the scaling - collective2 please correct me if I’m wrong. A hypothetical $12,458 at 1% scale for 482 closed trades from 4/24/15 - 3/31/16 before subscription and auto-trade fees. After subscription ($400 x 12 = $4,800) and auto-trade ($99 x 12 = $1,188), PL is $6,470. A 25.8% increase before taxes and broker fees. As someone who hasn’t jumped in yet, I think the math works well enough for me on paper. Do you have any more real world experience to share as Zip4x subscriber at 1% scale using IB? Any advice as I prepare to subscribe? Thanks, Matt ---
**Author:** ![BBTC](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/bbtc/32/1487_2.png) [@BBTC](https://forums.collective2.com/u/BBTC)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/auto-scaling-zip4x/8587/6 "2016-04-13T18:06:32Z")
This is what I use. I use 5 percents bcs I wants every time the developer add positions, I want to ride that positions. Before you join, you have to know what is the maximize position you can take based on your capital size, margin n risk tolerance. If I am at home, once I received notification if the developer take a new position, I will look at my indicators before I jump in. This is me bcs I know how read what chart telling me. If I’m comfortable, I don’t mind to use 5 percents positions in open markets, but , let say I have no knowledge or I can not see my indicators, I will do conservative , I will cut my position to become 3-4 positions in C2 instead of 10 position if I use 5 percents. and add more positions whenever the developer adding positions. My points are, I want to minimize my risk and increase my profit. This is the beauty when I use this strategy n follow the developer style and it works for me. ---
**Author:** ![Davo2000](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/davo2000/32/1487_2.png) [@Davo2000](https://forums.collective2.com/u/Davo2000)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 5:12am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/auto-scaling-zip4x/8587/7 "2016-04-20T05:12:40Z")
I was looking into auto scaling Zip4x and there is a thread that might be of interest “what is Autoscaling”. I looked into Autoscaling at 1% and it wasn’t profitable, too many trades aren’t placed because they don’t round down. 2% works much better and gives you a max capital risk of $36k. Or if you can watch the trades and manage the risk like Sam mentions you can take it higher to 5% which is a lot of capital. Problem is although the total account size for Zip4x is huge typically he only uses $25k and rarely up to $1m, though he could use the whole account in a draw down situation so you have to size for that. ---
**Author:** ![vrup](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/vrup/32/1487_2.png) [@vrup](https://forums.collective2.com/u/vrup)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 1:44pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/auto-scaling-zip4x/8587/8 "2016-04-20T13:44:12Z")
Dont trust the autoscaling estimate at 1%. The zip4x is at $100,000 lots and at IB you can trade $10,000 lots, so you will be trading most (if not all) trades at 1%. The autoscaling estimates assumes you cant trade 10,000 lots. ---
**Author:** ![Davo2000](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/davo2000/32/1487_2.png) [@Davo2000](https://forums.collective2.com/u/Davo2000)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/auto-scaling-zip4x/8587/9 "2016-04-20T14:41:39Z")
That is a pretty big flaw if that is the case. The C2 returns calculator showed a paltry $22 return for 2 weeks at 1%. Considering the outstanding returns this strategy generates something is wrong. A trial at 1% scale would be probably be informative, and would require $18k capital to cover the $1.8M account size.