# Drawdwn & risk question **URL:** \ **Category:** C2\ **Created:** [November 16, 2006, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619 "2006-11-16T12:28:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ScienceTrader](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/sciencetrader/32/4_2.png) [@ScienceTrader](https://forums.collective2.com/u/ScienceTrader)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/1 "2006-11-16T12:28:08Z")
Matthew, I read through some old threads where people were claiming the drawdwn (reported for each trade) had errors. Is that (still) the case, or have these problems been solved? Second, why is drawdwn “n/a” for many trades with a short timeframe. Does this mean it’s (close to) zero? I am confused, because sometimes it reads “n/a” for trades that had a loss, in which case I would expected the drawdown to be at least equal to the loss. ---
**Author:** ![MatthewKlein](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/matthewklein/32/21382_2.png) [@MatthewKlein](https://forums.collective2.com/u/MatthewKlein)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 12:33pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/2 "2006-11-16T12:33:23Z")
C2 does pretty extensive testing on max drawdowns by looking at each trade and going through 1-minute bar data during the length of the trade to determine the worst drawdown. Since quote feeds sometimes have bad ticks, it is possible that the data C2 uses will have a bad price in it, which might make for an incorrect drawdown stat. For what it’s worth, we try to use software to scrub the data, but bad ticks do sneak in, and when they do, usually the system vendor will report the bad stat and it will be corrceted relatively quickly. Drawdown stats are calulated on a delayed basis – that is, it may be up to a day before a stat appears for a given trade. That’s why you might see “N/A” for the stat. Alternately, if the historical data is so “dirty” and full of bad ticks as to make the calc useless, you may see an N/A for that number, too. But that is pretty rare. ---
**Author:** ![PalAnand](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/palanand/32/2923_2.png) [@PalAnand](https://forums.collective2.com/u/PalAnand)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/3 "2006-12-12T20:36:03Z")
Don’t believe it? I have this trade: BTO 84 GBP/THB 69.90750 11/12/06 19:06 STC 84 70.07929 11/24/06 3:29 $308,700 Fix High $3,952 Notice the 300K drawdown that never happened? because MK claims that this instrument had a 14700 pips drawdown. The worst price was 68.64 Quantity open at that time 21 Average open price at that time 70.11 Can you imagine incurring a 14700 pip drawdown? It is just common sense that he has made a mistake in the pip calculations. But he fails to see it. There are several examples like this. But he wont fix it because of his incompetence. The whole drawdown and risk column is a cruel joke. And the worst part of it is this is reflected in the equity curve and some dumb asses believe that too. ---
**Author:** ![EuNew](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/eunew/32/1487_2.png) [@EuNew](https://forums.collective2.com/u/EuNew)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 8:47pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/4 "2006-12-12T20:47:56Z")
Pal, I believe that MK mentioned somewhere in the forum that he’ll fix **any unbelievable** trade if you send him a statement for it. Just use his promise and fix it 😉 Eu ---
**Author:** ![PalAnand](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/palanand/32/2923_2.png) [@PalAnand](https://forums.collective2.com/u/PalAnand)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 8:51pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/5 "2006-12-12T20:51:05Z")
I have sent this problem to him over 6 times but he still has not fixed it. We had a conversation about this problem and he fails to see any error in his calculations. He hopes that the problem will go away if he ignores it. He underestimates me. Whose fault is that 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![EuNew](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/eunew/32/1487_2.png) [@EuNew](https://forums.collective2.com/u/EuNew)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/6 "2006-12-12T21:06:53Z")
(sigh) Send him a statement for the trade. He won’t be able to avoid the fact. It’s very easy instead of empty complains how C2 doesn’t fit your personal imagination on every corner. Eu ---
**Author:** ![PalAnand](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/palanand/32/2923_2.png) [@PalAnand](https://forums.collective2.com/u/PalAnand)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/7 "2006-12-12T21:10:32Z")
Are you nuts? The data is right there on the closed trades page. It is my mistake starting this conversation with you. ---
**Author:** ![EuNew](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/eunew/32/1487_2.png) [@EuNew](https://forums.collective2.com/u/EuNew)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 9:28pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/8 "2006-12-12T21:28:57Z")
(sigh) S-t-a-t-e-m-e-n-t . It’s serious accusation about falsification of trades for the kind of business as C2. From my experience C2’s support is always sensitive to facts. Period. Eu ---
**Author:** ![PalAnand](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/palanand/32/2923_2.png) [@PalAnand](https://forums.collective2.com/u/PalAnand)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/9 "2006-12-12T21:40:45Z")
Is the closed trades, not good enough to verify the calculations?. Eu, you seriously have to have your head examined. ---
**Author:** ![SamCook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SamCook](https://forums.collective2.com/u/SamCook)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/10 "2006-12-12T21:43:42Z")
\> (sigh) S-t-a-t-e-m-e-n-t . It should be clear by now Pal has never seen one. His posts on open and closed equity are evidence he has never had a futures account. ---
**Author:** ![EuNew](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/eunew/32/1487_2.png) [@EuNew](https://forums.collective2.com/u/EuNew)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/11 "2006-12-12T22:04:44Z")
_Is the closed trades, not good enough to verify the calculations?_ It’s good enough if it’s auditable. Eu ---
**Author:** ![PalAnand](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/palanand/32/2923_2.png) [@PalAnand](https://forums.collective2.com/u/PalAnand)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/12 "2006-12-12T22:05:48Z")
Wrong. All you need to is to open your eyes and mind. ---
**Author:** ![JulesEllis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@JulesEllis](https://forums.collective2.com/u/JulesEllis)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/13 "2006-12-12T22:10:46Z")
Nevertheless, I’m not entirely convinced that he is wrong in _this_ case. I don’t know enough about forex, but his claim that the lowest price was 68.64 in that period seems reasonable if I look to the Yahoo charts. Could that cause a $300K DD? PS. Pal, about which system are we talking? ---
**Author:** ![PalAnand](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/palanand/32/2923_2.png) [@PalAnand](https://forums.collective2.com/u/PalAnand)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 10:12pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/14 "2006-12-12T22:12:36Z")
I did not say there were anything wrong with the data. Only the calcluations used to arrive at the drawdown. C’mon Jules, is that so hard for you understand? ---
**Author:** ![JulesEllis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@JulesEllis](https://forums.collective2.com/u/JulesEllis)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/15 "2006-12-12T22:18:17Z")
Ah, but I understood your complaint was about the data. That was what started the thread, I believe. I have little experience with forex calculations, so I won’t post about it now. ---
**Author:** ![PalAnand](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/palanand/32/2923_2.png) [@PalAnand](https://forums.collective2.com/u/PalAnand)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/16 "2006-12-12T22:22:57Z")
Not only data, but sometimes also the calculations that go with it. ---
**Author:** ![PalAnand](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/palanand/32/2923_2.png) [@PalAnand](https://forums.collective2.com/u/PalAnand)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 10:23pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/17 "2006-12-12T22:23:31Z")
ps: if the data is wrong, usually one would see a no calc there. ---
**Author:** ![Index](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/db5fbb/32.png) [@Index](https://forums.collective2.com/u/Index)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2006, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/18 "2006-12-13T07:38:35Z")
Actually, the occurrence of No Calcs is quite common for some systems. When I analyze some, I have seen occurrences of 10-15% "No calcs" in the track record. ---
**Author:** ![LewPayne](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/lewpayne/32/238_2.png) [@LewPayne](https://forums.collective2.com/u/LewPayne)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2006, 2:08pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/19 "2006-12-13T14:08:11Z")
Select quotes from Palsun Anand… “But he wont fix it because of his incompetence.” “I have sent this problem to him over 6 times but he still has not fixed it.” “All you need to is to open your eyes and mind.” “C’mon Jules, is that so hard for you understand?” "Are you nuts? The data is right there on the closed trades page. It is my mistake starting this conversation with you." I see Palsun is busy making new friends everywhere he posts. Hint: Perhaps they didn’t listen to you, Palsun, because they know from prior experience that most likely there’s nothing of substance to listen to. ---
**Author:** ![Index](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/db5fbb/32.png) [@Index](https://forums.collective2.com/u/Index)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2006, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619/20 "2006-12-13T17:12:13Z")
For example, Rocket Science has 4 "No calcs" on the first page of the track record… [Next page](https://forums.collective2.com/t/drawdwn-risk-question/6619.md?page=2)