# Make reports more tranparent and honest =\> useful **URL:** \ **Category:** C2\ **Created:** [December 19, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/make-reports-more-tranparent-and-honest-useful/5253 "2005-12-19T23:11:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ECMAX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@ECMAX](https://forums.collective2.com/u/ECMAX)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/make-reports-more-tranparent-and-honest-useful/5253/1 "2005-12-19T23:11:52Z")
Following does not include forex where commission is covered by bid/ask. There are a number of important features which make these graphics and reports of dbioud use. I just learnt for a start that the green equity curve is for open and close positions. Now I can see how that gives a look at drawdown periods - but they should be reported anyway. The best way to see how a system performs graphically is to show the closed equity plot. Also - the graph should be shown trade by trade without increasing and decreasing lots to get an accurate picture of performance [some do do this like coin collector] AND WHERE ARE the commissions? I leanrt fx is covered by ASK-Spread, but on Futures at least they should absolutely be a deduction of at LEAST $20 per contract per round lot trade [some people still pay more[…AND at least a further $10 for slippage. When I first came onto this site I thought it as a really cool idea. But the ,more O look at it the more what I consider to be some significant problems. Take a look at coin collector for instance - I was going to subscribe to this - I still might, but I have re-appraised it in the light of the commission problem Trades512 Profitable357 Losses155 Win %69.7% Cumu $$145,250 after typical commission$119,600 Avg Win$1,133 Avg Loss$1,672 Now if you get into these figurs a bit more - they have a great plus in that they are for trades of the same number of contracts at least - giving a closed equity curve an honest look. BUT Each turn is 10 LOTS Lets say you’ve got a good broker and get $20 round lots with 0 slippage. 512 Trades X 10 LOTS X $20 = 102400 Coin Collector has figures like this Cumu $$145,250 after typical commission$119,600 I think they should be more like this Cumu $$145,250 after typical commission$42,850 [Sorry coin collector btw - it’s just that I was studying your system all day in as much detaila as I could and this occurred to me late in the day - I could make these same points about a number of systems.] Consider also that coin collector average win [stated at [rockwelltrading.com](http://rockwelltrading.com) ] is Avg. Profit per Trade $34 Now if that is per contarct with commisiom it should actually read $14 And this commission factor would show a lot of winning trdaes as losers so 70% win ration would decline too. C2 is a great idea - but c’mon - lets get the heavy iron out. Repots without honest commsion charges are a nonsense. === Here’s my 90%+ successfuly scheme Trending high [lets say filter is dmi adx, or macd , whatever] Buy 1 at highest high 1 day ago - sell at highest high 1 day ago plus 2 points. without commission maybe 90% successful with commission 100% failing. ---
**Author:** ![Pete](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/pete/32/12306_2.png) [@Pete](https://forums.collective2.com/u/Pete)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 7:32am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/make-reports-more-tranparent-and-honest-useful/5253/2 "2005-12-20T07:32:13Z")
While I agree with your overall point that C2 could do a lot more to make the information presented more realistic I strongly disagree with your position that the estimated commission per RT emini future trade should be “at LEAST $20”. If you are paying that much then its time for a new broker. IB and MBT both charge slightly less than $5 per RT (and prehaps quite a bit less if you can get a monthly volume discount) Also if you are going to try to factor in slippage (which is a separate argument) then I think it should be based on the product traded rather than a fixed amt like $10 per contract, e.g. just make it one tick per contract per side so the dollar amt varies with tick size rather than a one-size-fits-all solution like $10. My 2 cents. ---
**Author:** ![ECMAX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@ECMAX](https://forums.collective2.com/u/ECMAX)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 7:47am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/make-reports-more-tranparent-and-honest-useful/5253/3 "2005-12-20T07:47:31Z")
…maybe I do need a new broker :0 who are IB and MBT ? ---
**Author:** ![Pete](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/pete/32/12306_2.png) [@Pete](https://forums.collective2.com/u/Pete)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 8:51am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/make-reports-more-tranparent-and-honest-useful/5253/4 "2005-12-20T08:51:29Z")
IB [http://www.interactivebrokers.com](http://www.interactivebrokers.com) MBT [http://www.mbtrading.com/](http://www.mbtrading.com/) ---
**Author:** ![MarkusHeitkoetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19b73/32.png) [@MarkusHeitkoetter](https://forums.collective2.com/u/MarkusHeitkoetter)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/make-reports-more-tranparent-and-honest-useful/5253/5 "2005-12-20T14:38:11Z")
EC, I strongly agree with Pete: You should expect to pay $20 per RT for a full service broker who’s monitoring the trades for you, and maybe even places trades according to your trading plan. When subscribing to C2 and auto-trading through TradeBullet you only need a discount broker who supports TradeBullet. Especially when trading a trend-fading system like CoinCollector with a rather low average profit per trade, you need a broker with a low commission structure. **About trading profits:** **Net profit** is defined as **average net profit per trade multiplied by trading frequency**. If you have a system that trades 90 times per month and produces an average net profit per trade of $30, then you will make more profits than when trading a system that trades only 4 times per month but has a high average net profit of $150. You need to make sure that the average profit per trade covers slippage and commissions. Then the net profit becomes a factor of **trading frequency** and **position size**. Hope that helps.