Matthew, Is hedging possible on C2?

NB, another way you can do this on C2 right now is… at the exact point you want to hedge your trade why not simply close out your trade and do the following: either place two limit orders one on each side of the market at the support and resistance and tie them together with an Order Cancels-Another order. So basically you have a buy and a sell order waiting to be filled. You aren’t sure which will be hit first so you tie the orders together with an OCA and as soon as one is hit you are right back in your trade at the level you want to be at. You can also use entry stops if you feel price is going to break out at a certain level rather than finding support and resistance. You then tie those two orders together with a One Cancels-Another. So really there already are several ways here on C2 to accomplish what you are trying to do. Sure you can’t hit a button that says “hedge”; however if you did you would still have to go in and enter your orders on either side of the market so at some point your ‘hedge’ would be closed causing you to be back in your trade again. So why not just use OCA’s right now?

It is easier but also consider the long term trader holding positions for weeks or months. This type of trader probably does not want to watch the markets every second of the day and night. So if he puts in a protective stop and it triggers at three in the morning or when he has gone out then he is out of the trade. He may miss a re-entry point for his long term trade. However with the "Hedge" set up properly it will kick in where the stop would have been placed. The trader is protected if the market keeps going against him. But if the market turns back in his direction the hedge eventually is liquidated and he is back in business and can then profit from his long term position. It is not foolproof but better than not using it.



The other thing about buying and selling at the same time is that it allows one to profit in a range bound market regardless of where in the range the market currently is. See a video on this topic here (When Should You Use Hedging?):



http://www.fxcm.com/hedging.jsp

On second glance the technique shown in the video can be accomplished instead with a couple of limit orders - one at each edge of the range. It appears that in that example buying and selling at the same time is not necessary :slight_smile:

If you have two systems (long term and swing trade), why not open two systems at C2? In that way you can be long and short at the same time.



Subscribers can also see the combined portfolio in the Grid. I think the main limitations are (1) the combined portfolio does not show up automatically in the Grid, and most statistics will not be shown for it, and (2) the margin requirements will be applied for each system separately.



The point is, an alternative way to view this is to regard it as a request for more facilities to combine different systems of the same vendor. For example, for every two systems A and B the vendor might define a third system C = A + B, and the statistics of C would also be displayed at the Grid. I am not sure that this would satisfy NB though.

Hmmm , Great Idea, but still dangerous to use here on C2.



Lets say by the time you buy from 150 you got 10 subscribers.

And say by the time your second limit buy order gets triggered to buy at 160, your number of subscribers would be 30.



10 subscribers have bought from 150

20 subscribers bought from 160



If the Market goes down 700 pips, 10 subscribers would still be happy, while 20 will get their Margin Call. !!"Account blow up"



Would appreciate if someone tells me how to avoid this.

NB, good question and you can also avoid this here on C2. Really what the hedge function in the Forex account lets you do is to string together a series of One Cancels-Another and Contingent orders together. This is where I give the Forex brokerage firms a lot of credit. They take a straight forward concept that requires a complex series of orders and orchestrate it together with the click of the hedge button. So here are the steps. 1) close your trade when you would normally use the hedge feature in the Forex account. 2) enter your entry stops or limit orders on each side of the market. Here is the cool part; on the order ticket on the right hand side you will see a box to enter a stop and a box for the profit take target. Fill those out. This is the contingent order of the bunch. In other words these only become active if that order gets filled. 3) tie your two orders that you have on each side of the market together with a One Cancels-Another. So as an example you have two limit orders, one at support and one at resistance that each has two sub orders waiting to kick in if the limit order gets filled. The OCA comes into play as soon as one of the limits gets filled the other trade gets canceled along with its two sub orders. So anyway, I understand what you are trying to accomplish here. You have to keep in mind how regulated most of the markets are and it is very old school with the order entry. This is as close as you can get to the way you trade in your personal account with the “hedge” feature. Really C2 can’t change anything because the majority of the brokers your subs will use do not honor the hedge feature, or at least the easy version of it. So with that said many of the brokers are not as user friendly as the forex brokers with the way they take orders. I give Matthew a lot of credit. You can accomplish all of this on C2 with two order tickets and it will conform to all the brokers out there. Well, I guess there are still some brokers out there that don’t even handle contingent orders. So really you are doing the same thing that has been done for years in other markets. Most brokers see it as being flat with an orchestrated plan waiting to play out with your six waiting orders. Some Forex brokers call it a hedge. This is what gets confusing because many traders view a hedge as almost like insurance. You by a few puts to protect your stock portfolio from a huge crash. So the value of your account is still changing. The above example the value of your account stays flat until one of the orders are hit. I think this is why this topic gets so darn confusing! :slight_smile:

Sorry, near the end of my post that should read you “buy” a few puts. Not “by” a few puts! I’m still on my first cup of coffee! :slight_smile:

Jules:



In my example, I did start out as if there were 2 separate systems. But the primary reason to combine them is to smooth the equity curve on system "A" in my example. This improves the appearance of the equity curve and improves most of the other stats as well, thus making it more appealing to subscribers. Yes, you could combine 2 systems on the Grid, but I suspect that many are not doing so, and are not likely to find and choose the 2 complementary systems to make the synthetic system "C".



Hans.