# Probability of Subscribers? **URL:** \ **Category:** C2\ **Created:** [July 9, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315 "2011-07-09T18:50:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DavidCutler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c68b51/32.png) [@DavidCutler](https://forums.collective2.com/u/DavidCutler)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/1 "2011-07-09T18:50:34Z")
I have been trading for awhile and am confident that I can earn at least 5% a month. All trades are low risk and there isn’t too many of them so it would be easy to manage. My % profitable would probably be about 70-90 with a low max drawdown. I sampled the website and right now I have made 5% realized gain with 100% winners and never invested more than 30% (so if this were for real, it would be 15% gain). Before I pay the listing fee, I wanted to know from the community if I can expect subscribers. I would charge about $5-$15. I understand I need a track record but I would think that a couple of months with “healthy” returns would be attractive. When I look at the top strategies though, I question why anyone would go for a strategy that earned 30% when they can use one that earned 400%. Any other suggestions? ---
**Author:** ![KevinL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/91b2a8/32.png) [@KevinL](https://forums.collective2.com/u/KevinL)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/2 "2011-07-09T19:38:36Z")
My system started on the same day as yours and my system almost doubled. I still did not get paid subscribers yet. You might need more patience. If you can do what you said, i,e, at least 5% per month with low drawdown, I bet you will get good number of subscribers. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![RichardNelson](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/richardnelson/32/1487_2.png) [@RichardNelson](https://forums.collective2.com/u/RichardNelson)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/3 "2011-07-09T19:42:47Z")
Pay the fee… I’ll subscribe…read your decription and like your approach…i can’t imagine you having trouble getting subscribers if you can deliver … 1 consistent returns 2 low DD 3 reasonable fee ---
**Author:** ![DavidCutler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c68b51/32.png) [@DavidCutler](https://forums.collective2.com/u/DavidCutler)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/4 "2011-07-09T21:33:44Z")
Thanks for all of your help. I’ll try my best to get on the network soon! ---
**Author:** ![StephenJAdamski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@StephenJAdamski](https://forums.collective2.com/u/StephenJAdamski)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/5 "2011-07-10T00:15:33Z")
Build it and they will come. Take a risk, pay the fee and put it out there. If you can make money consistently every year I am sure you will get subscribers. It is totally unrealistic though to think that a couple of months of “healthy” returns will be attractive, as this is not a track record. There seems to be a lot of focus in posts recently on how quick can I get subscribers and how much money can I make from them in the shortest amount of time, bordering on desperation, from vendors with hardly any track record. Instead of focusing on how much money you can make from subscribers, focus on demonstrating a profitable system and building trust with your followers. Show them that you are not desperate and more interested in building something that both vendor and subscriber can benefit from long term. Finally the reason people will go for a strategy that produces 30% is because it is realistic and sustainable. An annual return of 400% is unrealistic and unsustainable. These types of returns are produced in short runs, never last and are usually followed by massive blowouts. If they could produce 400% consistently I honestly don’t think they would be here chasing subscription fees. However if they can, show me trading records and statements, allow them to be independently audited and I myself will pay $1,000.00 per month in subscription fees. I have a friend who was offered 2 million upfront, salary and a share holding from a small institution for his system that produced 60% per annum. But he had 3-5 years of records that could be audited. That’s the real world, not these hyped up short-term massive gains. All the best with your decision. ---
**Author:** ![KevinL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/91b2a8/32.png) [@KevinL](https://forums.collective2.com/u/KevinL)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/6 "2011-07-10T00:27:20Z")
Thanks for you invaluable information. I am very interested in how your friend approaches institution. I have years’ track record, how can I approach those institutions? I do not have Ivy degree they want. ---
**Author:** ![StephenJAdamski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@StephenJAdamski](https://forums.collective2.com/u/StephenJAdamski)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/7 "2011-07-10T00:43:05Z")
He already had contacts within the industry as he was working as a trader. You could try approaching them directly, I did years ago via email and found them quite receptive. You would need at least 3 years of data and be prepared to have all your records audited, including bank statements, by an accounting firm. At hedge fund conferences they usually won’t talk to you unless you have 5 years of live trade data. ---
**Author:** ![KevinL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/91b2a8/32.png) [@KevinL](https://forums.collective2.com/u/KevinL)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/8 "2011-07-10T00:48:42Z")
Thanks for your kind help! ---
**Author:** ![EdisonNica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/77aa72/32.png) [@EdisonNica](https://forums.collective2.com/u/EdisonNica)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2011, 11:51am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/9 "2011-07-10T11:51:03Z")
Your system requires a small amount of money to start: $10,000. That is exactly like mine. I am manual trading my system. And I don’t intend to sell it for less than what I can actually make myself. My advice: 1) Manually trade your system. You will learn a lot from this experience. And if you really bactested well your system and you are confident, then you will make more money than subscribers will ever pay you in the first year or years! 2) Get 2 or more strategies alike (might be different set’s of stocks, might be random neutral trades, but try to have more than 1 way of trading). Don’t post on C2 the best you have! There are plenty of people that will try to reverse engineer your strategy. Once that happen you will experience diminished returns! ---
**Author:** ![DavidCutler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c68b51/32.png) [@DavidCutler](https://forums.collective2.com/u/DavidCutler)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/10 "2011-07-10T16:37:09Z")
Can I change the price of my system at any time? How is that possible if the subscribers are already paying the previous price? I was just wondering because I’m not sure yet on what a reasonable price would be. Also, is it a good incentive for subscribers to have a “only if profitable” criteria for the fee? I would think that it could show that I care about the signals. ---
**Author:** ![KevinL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/91b2a8/32.png) [@KevinL](https://forums.collective2.com/u/KevinL)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/11 "2011-07-10T16:48:23Z")
Yes, you can change the price at any time. I just guess the paid subscriber should keep the low price if you change higher (change to lower price if you change lower). You can ask Matthew to clarify this issue. ---
**Author:** ![DavidCutler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c68b51/32.png) [@DavidCutler](https://forums.collective2.com/u/DavidCutler)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/12 "2011-07-13T17:37:55Z")
I plan on going live very soon but I wanted to ask the community what they would prefer for a fee. I want to have my strategy at a very good value but I am not sure whether a per-trade fee or a weekly fee is better. The per-trade fee allows the subscriber to essentially pay for what they get while the weekly fee allows them to pay for the strategy. In addition, the weekly fee would probably be only if profitable. What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![XavierWymanPfiefer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/e8c25b/32.png) [@XavierWymanPfiefer](https://forums.collective2.com/u/XavierWymanPfiefer)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/13 "2011-07-13T17:43:43Z")
Stuart, I suggest your fee not exceed 10% of the net profit after commissions and sub fee regardless of the payment plan you offer. This gives you latitude to either raise or lower fees based on your performance. Subscribers are willing to pay a reasonable fee (10% by my way of thinking) for profit gained after fees and commission. ---
**Author:** ![CEOOptimum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@CEOOptimum](https://forums.collective2.com/u/CEOOptimum)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/14 "2011-07-13T17:54:49Z")
Xavier, How do you calculate "Net Profit". COmparing two vendors, one starting their system with 10,000… the other starting their system with 100,000. Does this mean the 100,000 system could charge 10x more then the 10,000 (given that each made the same profit %)? Is your net profit proposal on the yearly profit, monthly, something else? ---
**Author:** ![XavierWymanPfiefer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/e8c25b/32.png) [@XavierWymanPfiefer](https://forums.collective2.com/u/XavierWymanPfiefer)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/15 "2011-07-13T18:07:57Z")
Good question. Net profit is calculated by reducing the number of futures contracts to one as the common denominater ( I don’t think about shares in equities for this equation) and adjusting the developer’s opening capital account by like amount. For example , if the developer is trading 1 contract on a $10K or $100K account that is fine. However, if the developer is trading 5 contracts on a $100K account, you need to reduce the numbers (proforma) to 1 contract on a $20K account to be pari passu. Don’t get sucked in to accounts that have a high starting equity with mutliple contracts for evaluation purpose. The baseline is always ONE contract, in which you can scale both starting equity and contract size from there. Does this make sense? ---
**Author:** ![DennisH](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/dennish/32/1487_2.png) [@DennisH](https://forums.collective2.com/u/DennisH)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/16 "2011-07-13T19:35:19Z")
_"The baseline is always ONE contract, in which you can scale both starting equity and contract size from there._ _Does this make sense? "_ Not really. The daily range of the 5-year note is less than 1/10 the daily range of silver. If I were offering 2 systems for those 2 futures, I’d want to be paid equally for both, assuming they were both equally profitable in percentage terms. ---
**Author:** ![CEOOptimum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@CEOOptimum](https://forums.collective2.com/u/CEOOptimum)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/17 "2011-07-13T23:42:46Z")
Xavier, I don’t trade futures, it may make sense to those folks. However, how do you make the net profit calculation for those Forex or Stock systems? The metric should work across any kind of market. ---
**Author:** ![JPInvestments](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ba0ec/32.png) [@JPInvestments](https://forums.collective2.com/u/JPInvestments)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/18 "2011-07-14T00:58:52Z")
This site is almost an scam: a. No disclousure numbers, or fake numbers, b. Poor order entry system, c. Changing rules withouth any notice (i.e. comision cost on system performance) d. Poor or inexistence customer service. e. System creators cannibalized by the site´s owner with [www.youtualfunds.com](http://www.youtualfunds.com) f. System creators pay with credit card and receive by paypol without compensation. g. No marketing investing (almost zero) , only new sites to compete with the system creators who support C2. h. Worst of all 5.000 unique visitors per day . How much do you think will subscribe with you ? C2 claims 15.000 systems…do the math !!! [LINKSYSTEM\_54134730] ---
**Author:** ![PalAnand](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/palanand/32/2923_2.png) [@PalAnand](https://forums.collective2.com/u/PalAnand)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 3:46am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/19 "2011-07-14T03:46:36Z")
I’ll attempt a rebuttal. \>a. No disclousure numbers, or fake numbers, If you meant # of subscribers, the primary purpose of C2 is to serve as a third party auditor. \>b. Poor order entry system, You are welcome to try another third party application which as garnered rave reviews. C2 had been generous to allow this. \>c. Changing rules withouth any notice (i.e. comision cost on system performance) I agree this was a surprise (better late than never) but it is only fair and it also complies with NFA/CFTC rules. Many sites have been shut down in the past due to this and in addition there have been lawsuits and people have gone to jail. Do you want that to happen to C2 also. d. Poor or inexistence customer service. I believe they have a few new additions to the customer service squad. e. System creators cannibalized by the site´s owner with [www.youtualfunds.com](http://www.youtualfunds.com) I’m not sure about this. f. System creators pay with credit card and receive by paypol without compensation. I believe this keeps costs down. PayPal is trusted the world over. g. No marketing investing (almost zero) , only new sites to compete with the system creators who support C2. Not true. In fact, C2 pays half the cost of GooGle Ads. h. Worst of all 5.000 unique visitors per day . Why is this worst? Sorry, I fail to understand. Please explain. [LINKSYSTEM\_62659351] ---
**Author:** ![PalAnand](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex028/user_avatar/forums.collective2.com/palanand/32/2923_2.png) [@PalAnand](https://forums.collective2.com/u/PalAnand)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 6:43am UTC](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315/20 "2011-07-14T06:43:31Z")
\>a. No disclousure numbers, or fake numbers, Actually I dont know what numbers you mean here. \>only new sites to compete with the system creators who support C2. If you meant [www.youtualfunds.com](http://www.youtualfunds.com), that site is geared for stock investors only and makes it easier to trade (I prefer this) as we dont have to specify exact number of shares to buy/sell while C2 is for everything except options on fx and futures. [LINKSYSTEM\_62659351] [Next page](https://forums.collective2.com/t/probability-of-subscribers/5315.md?page=2)