The opinions expressed in these forums do not represent those of C2, and any discussion of profit/loss is not indicative of future performance or success. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading. You should therefore carefully consider whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your financial condition. You should read, understand, and consider the Risk Disclosure Statement that is provided by your broker before you consider trading. Most people who trade lose money.

TopStep strategy on Collective2


Personally I just think he was one of the biggest scammers on C2. I don’t think he made money for ANY client yet he went away with a ton of sub fees.

Sick or not don’t u think he owes his subs the fees he collected from them or were they just excuses like the fact he said C2 charged too much cuts so he is unwilling to continue.

Which ironically, he had almost zero net profits in ANY of his systems that ranged from $500 to $1000


People who signed up early for free got greatly reduced subscription prices, people who did not take advantage of his initial free subscription will never be able to appreciate his trading skills during the time he was trading it himself.


@KarlA, unfortunately his trading did not result in his subs making money. Afterall, isn’t that the reason people would pay $500 to $1000 for a service?

There have been many people that came and went that said alot of things that made them sound like gurus but in the end the proof is in the pudding.

He may have been a good trader? or not but we will never know because he took off with his sub fees and has not returned.

I for one would love for him to prove he is a good trader. The track record he had was good only for about half a month and we all know that traders can get lucky for at least 2 or 3 months.


Still don’t know why u keep pumping payoff matrix. He wasn’t good after 3 months, wasn’t good after 6 month. And now his gone. So just because he issued a morning pre-open email so now he is the best trader we ever had on c2? Yet he didn’t even survive 5 months with on here.

From what you wrote about him, it seems like you know him personally? Same reason why you keep promoting his name and saying how great he is?

@PotOdds I mean reading some of these forum posts, No one has been talking about payoff matrix for a few months, and not many is curious about him. But a few of u keep bringing him up from time to time. Honestly 80% of what is being said or promoted in these forums are BS. So many market them selves as hedge fund manager with 10+ year of experience or they are using state of the art algorithm or they have some ”special” edge when it comes to trading. In the end its all BS, show me a decent track record on c2 for 2 years. Rarely any strategy survive 2 years here, so I don’t care if it’s your hedge fund experience or you proprietary algorithm or your smart as fck robot. Performance in the end is all it matters.

I mean since c2 has zero transparency, 1 of you mysteriously keep talking about him, then 1 of you promotes him, next thing you know payoff matrix is making a mysterious come back!


OSUTAI, you are reading my mind, maybe he is already here under a different name, lately a few promising day trading systems came online - I would not mind as long as the system performs well.


BTW, on one of those new day trading systems I made already over 6K since I subscribed 15 days ago and I did not even take all the winning trades. Please don’t ask me what system that is, I don’t want to be accused by OSUTAI or anybody else that I promote any particular system.


I’ll never encourage anyone to subscribe any new models. As everyone know, accountability a new model needs long process. Only time can tell how great is the new model. I used to have one active person in C2 that diversify many good systems ( at that time) and has plenty of capital, guess what, he regrets everything bcs makes him lost a lot of money. He doesn’t use any C2 anymore. I think last time you mention, payoff matrix is a great model right? Right, that’s a new model. No accountability for that model, only short period. Can anyone raise hand a new model that has super performance less than 2 months, have live subscribers, write it down n check next 6 months from now. Let see which one can stay in here with positive performance.


It would almost behoove us to subscribe to 10 new futures systems, do the opposite of their trades, and wait 3-6 months for them to blow up and us to do very well.
Actually not that insane when you think about the failure rate of new systems. Especially forum spammers.


Now thats not a bad idea! (trading against all the newbie systems)…lol. Its exactly what some forex brokers do themselves though they claim they don’t.


I’ve noticed today many of the systems on my watchlist have now either gone to almost zero or have stopped trading or have had significant drawdowns of over 30% during this market correction.


Zebra put together a short list few months back. If they advertise or spam on forums, 80% of the time they won’t survive 12 months. If you are busy marketing in the forums it only shows you care about getting subs. And that’s a wrong way to approach on managing other people’s real money.

If you are doing well or your strategy is doing well, you don’t need to spam us on the forums. We will FIND YOU!


Not entirely accurate, there are NUMEROUS very good systems that only have 1 or 2 subs, so it comes down to good bs. like that Vix Guy, will not mention his name, that started after a crash and his charts are starting to look like pyramids now. He talked a lot of bs. and you folks ate it up.
Buy and Hold would have accomplished similar results.


What strategy started after a crash and look at like pyramid?