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What is C2 score all about?


#1

Anyone can explain how the C2 score is constructed? Why my system WaveRunner which I believe the best on C2 only has a C2 score of 22? How useful of this score anyway? Can C2 people explain?


#2

“I rarely have time to answer questions”


#3

How is your YTD of 45000% ( forty five thousand ) derived ?


#4

By putting his entire account in an absurd number of VIX calls/puts (which you can’t do with real money, but I digress) and hoping it hits. If it doesn’t go his way his account would have gone to 0. But no one would have noticed. He’d just start up a new strategy, perhaps under a new name, and try it again.


#5

c2 score is based on (in theory) performance, track record, risk and popularity.

performance - compare your strategy with other peers monthly and quarterly. You prob had a good c2 score boost first 3 months. But once you got your first subscriber you just try to smooth sail, since then you prob under perform by most other strategies.

track record - short

risk - your recently draw down is -10% in 6 days. i wont say that high or low. it shouldnt effect your c2 score that much

popularity - this is based on views, clicks, sims and subscribers. base on clicks/views you are the 9th most popular strategy yesterday, and 13th most popular strategy last 6 weeks. Then i dont know how know how many new sims or subscribers you have or been gaining. you need to gain a steady streams of sims or subscribers to get your c2 score up.

i would say your c2 score is low because your short track record. also when you bet the farm x3 the first 3 month you were top of the peers. now you just trying to stay steady last 3 month you are now below your peers.

good luck!


#6
  • Return Statistics
  • Ann Return (w trading costs)

13790400.0%

  • Ann Return (Compnd, No Fees)

17621000.0%

just bet everything you have plus max margin on weekly vix options expiring in 2 days.


#7

I would also add that the C2 Score does penalize somewhat uncovered short options positions.


#8

Are you saying the score is reasonable for the performance of a system like mine? are you defending C2 for its score algorithm?


#9

whoever designed the score algorithm needs to get the reality check. many of the systems with score >90 are not impressive at all. So the score means little to investors and trade leaders.


#10

I may not complain if my score is 90 instead of 99, but 22? C2 needs help.


#11

The C2 score / algorithm works for normal distributions only, when the relevant variables are normally distributed.


#12

technically your inception day is like 6/27. until you had your first subscriber anything before that is just “blah” because in reality you are up 13% in 2 months. Thats prob avg among most of your peers (strategy developers).

your 50k% gain first 3 month became an outliner in the system because you cant “maintain” your performance. So you are saying by betting everything you got plus margin on a few trades and got it right deserve to have high c2 score ? if you are able to do that for 12 month + then yes u do. not just first 2 months. consistency is the key, if you are doing 50% monthly gain, if u cant maintain that then your c2 score will drop. same goes with someone only doing 5% gain per month, then start gaining 10% each month you c2 score will rise also.

c2 is trying to reward consistency and long track record. c2 score algo is hidden so people wont “GAME” the score. which i agree 100%. weighting of each category i still think it should be reviewed.


#13

What I believe is missing in C2 score algo, is dr. Martin Gale impact.
If that were in place, your C2 score would be above 90.

Good luck to all followers.


#14

I actually don’t. The problem with a hidden score is that one (like one of me) doesn’t trust it. (I don’t, I ignore it.)

If the score is something that I know and like, I would use it.

E.g. consistency, age, distribution of margin and p/l (no few large outliers), ignoring trades without real life execution, etc.

I wouldn’t mind if somebody “games” this type of score. I want every trade leader game this score!

As it is (the score is hidden), it may contain components that I don’t care about (like how much $$ it brought to C2), so I just ignore it.

Joseph


#15

that’s only IF c2 score is consist of what you just said. What if c2 score highest weighting is # of people simulate or subscribe to ?

i cant imagine the amount of bots being created and services that will “boost” you c2 score.


#16

Exactly my point. If this is what C2 score is, I don’t care about it (and as far as I am concerned, trade leaders are welcome to game it.)

Bottom line: a meaningful score is open and well defined and fully disclosed. If there is a reason to hide it, it is a reason in itself for me not to care about it. YMMV.


#17

I agree but thats difference c2 should be from our perspective as a investor/subscriber vs what c2 wants c2 to be in the future.

there is a lot of good ideas and feedback from this forum and other members. But those “our” vision or our idea what c2 “should” be. But most change we suggest are pretty simple changes, but most are not implemented because we keep looking at c2 from our perspective, either as a investor or a developers. but C2 has their own vision of what they want to be and reason for how things are. I mean Matt and everyone who works at c2 are very bright, stuff we suggested on the forum are mostly pretty obvious stuff or common sense. So in the end c2 score is hidden and how is weighted is meant to be that way. The way you and I want c2 score to be, im 100% sure Matt and his team would have though of it already.


#18

I am not happy that no C2 person has responded to this.


#19

Hi WaveRunner: I previously posted that our scoring penalizes strategies that sell uncovered options. Basically, the profits that come from such trades are (for purposes of the C2 Score) discounted by some expectancy factor. (One way to think about this is that you’ve been lucky so far, but one bad day could have ended your Model Account and real-money autotraders’ accounts as well. We try to factor that risk into our scoring.) This is not the only factor that matters; there are several. Another important one is strategy age.

This does not mean your strategy is “bad.” In fact, it might be great… for the right investor, in the right circumstance. The C2 Score is just one number that we use internally to help us decide how and where to display strategies.


#20

if low score does not mean bad system, the high score may not mean good system either. So what the usefulness of the score anyway? If the leader board is based on C2 score, then the board is useless. That is just my conclusion. Different people may have different view. C2 is clearly disappointing in this area. At least it disappointed me.