I notice that my systems have a value in the average profit per trade box.
Many systems that trade futures…like happy trading do not.
Why would that be?
It’s possible that option wasn’t visible when they first signed up. Either way, the information to calculate that value is all located right there on the page.
The stat “Avg P/L per unit traded” is calculated and presented on C2 only for futures and stock systems. It is designed to help traders evaluate how large or small a typical profit is on a per unit basis for those instruments where commission is typically calculated on a per unit basis as well.
This is useful because it helps show whether commission would likely significantly affect performance of a system. For example, imagine a stock system where the average profit per trade is 5 cents for every share that it trades. A typical commission is 1 cent per share each way, so commission would effectively eat 40% of this best-case P/L.
As for why the stat is not displayed for forex: We don’t display this particular stat for forex because forex commission is typically built into the actual execution prices by the broker as a widening of the spread and thus is already factored into trade profitability.
Matthew - Can you please explain why for the system Only Bund the Avg. P/L per unit traded is is a loss of over $11? Are you saying that the commission and the high surcharge by C2 are eating up all the profit and that the system in effect has been losing money? - Karl
The Avg P/L Per Unit stat does not include any AutoTrading fees because there are several C2-compatible AutoTrade solutions, and not all of them charge per-trade execution fees. Some (TradeBullet, Trader68) do not have any fee per execution, but rather charge a flat fee per month for use of their software. Indeed, C2 users does not need to AutoTrade at all if they do not want to.
To answer your specific question about why that particular Average Trade P/L Per Unit stat could be negative for a profitable system: The stat is basically designed to show the results per trade if you traded exactly 1 unit for each trade. In other words, the stat is a way of removing the effect of money management.
For example, imagine a system that has 9 very small losing trades (small both in terms of the size of each trade’s loss, and small in the sense that each trade was made with 1 contract). Imagine the system also has one very big winner due to the fact that 100 contracts were traded for that winner. In this example, the system might have a negative stat here, since we would basically normalize each trade’s profit on a per contract basis, then average that series of numbers.
Mathew,
Not displaying it for forex does not make sense to me. I understand that for forex there is no commish, but it is still an important number to have to decide as to wheather or not this is a good system for a starting one unit trader. Furthermore this way if I pay $10 in autotrading fees per trade I can calculate that easily.
Please add this feature.
Still
Stoned
Cheers
Follow along until the end, and you can answer the question "How will this impact my wallet?"
Wow, chart looks really great. And he accomplishes this incredable growth trading only 5 es contracts. Below are the factors to consider for the analysis.
1) Sharpe ratio is more than high enough ( nice steady up trend in account size )
2) Win Loss ratio is a high number.
3) Profit factor is high.
4) Has been trading long enough.
5) Average P/L per unit traded is under $10.
Ok lets see. If the system makes an average of under $10 per contract traded and there are auto trader costs and and monthly subscriber fees and then there are commissions per trade round turn of $5-$20. Then since I am getting the signal via auto trader my trade will be at the same time as all other auto trader subscribers. Will there be a "rush" which will cause slippage of one or more ticks? What is the value of this average slippage?
After all of these factors are added up what is the Net-NET at the end of each trade?
What is the negative net net at the end of the month for the daily income system?
Still
Stoned
Time to look at EMD Day trader.
The objective here is determine how this will impact your wallet.
The system appears to be everything the developer says it is and more.
Wow, chart looks really great. And he accomplishes this incredable growth trading only 1 contract. Below are the factors to consider for the analysis.
1) Sharpe ratio is more than high enough ( nice steady up trend in account size )
2) Win Loss ratio is a high number.
3) Profit factor is high.
4) Has been trading long enough.
5) Average P/L per unit traded is under $ 25.
Ok lets see. If the system makes an average of under $25 per contract traded and there are auto trader costs and and monthly subscriber fees and then there are commissions per trade round turn of $5-$20. Then since I am getting the signal via auto trader my trade will be at the same time as all other auto trader subscribers. Will there be a "rush" which will cause slippage of one or more ticks? What is the value of this average slippage?
After all of these factors are added up what is the NET-NET at the end of each trade? What is the net net guess at the end of the month for the daily income system?
Still
Stoned
Cheers
S&P Rainmaker
Follow along until the end, and you can answer the question "How will this impact my wallet?"
Wow, chart looks really great. And he accomplishes this incredable growth trading only 1 contracts. Below are the factors to consider for the analysis.
1) Sharpe ratio is more than high enough ( nice steady up trend in account size )
2) Win Loss ratio is a high number.
3) Profit factor is high.
4) Has been trading long enough.
5) Average P/L per unit traded is under $80.
Ok lets see. If the system makes an average of under $80 per contract traded and there are auto trader costs and and monthly subscriber fees and then there are commissions per trade round turn of $5-$20. Then since I am getting the signal via auto trader my trade will be at the same time as all other auto trader subscribers. Will there be a "rush" which will cause slippage of one or more ticks? What is the value of this average slippage?
After all of these factors are added up what is the Net-NET at the end of each trade?
What is the net net at the end of the month for the S&P rain maker?
Still
Stoned
Please stop posting the same message, again and again, with different system names.
Now, regarding your warning about slippage: In fact, when a system is AutoTraded here at C2, we receive real-life electronic execution reports back from the broker, and we use these execution prices to determine the C2 hypothetical fill prices you see on the site. So, while the results are still hypothetical, they already reflect fairly accurately the slippage that customers receive when AutoTrading the system.
You are right, however, to point out that we do not include commissions and execution fees in the results, since these are variable depending on the broker or AutoTrading solution you choose.
Matthew
Sorry, about using the same analysis. I think that it would be exellent if users were able to quicky do the analyis using the C2 site. This way I will not have to post it.
What happens is people look at the pretty charts and the chemicals in their brain go crazy.
My posts result in them doing a simple analysis to determine if they can acually make money with any of these systems, with all reasonable factors considered.
Still Very
Stoned
Matthew - Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify, does this computation also apply to stock trading systems, in other words the stats computation assumes that on each trade only a single stock has been traded? - Karl
Yes, it’s especially useful for stock trading systems, where trades can be scaled smaller or larger at whatever increment an AutoTrader desires (that is, nothing is stopping you from buying 12 shares, as opposed to 13 shares, a very tiny difference; but in the world of futures, you either need to buy 1 contract or 2 contracts – a world of difference).
So the stat reveals how many dollars and cents of profit, on average, the system makes per share traded – that is, as if each trade were composed of exactly one share. If you assume stock trading costs in commission $0.02 (two pennies) per share (in and out), then you can readily see whether a system is really tradable once commissions are factored in.
