Every trader has his/her own stress-levels. But, if we were forced to come up with a number, I think a reasonable amount is 10%, below which most intelligent traders/investors would start to look a little deeper (without throwing in the towel), but above 10% and serious reservations begin to surface.
If 10% is implemented in the c2-Star program, along with the other rules in sync, then I for one would definitely be a part of that universe (3, possibly 4 new strategies).
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I agree with the 10% draw down proposed by traderLab.
I also will state again that it shouldn’t be a rolling 60 day period to beat the S&P 500 by 1% (plus the $125 subscription fee). It should be fixed at the first of the month, not a rolling period. The reason is that after the first 60 days goes by, you never really know where you stand, without going back exactly 60 days prior to see how each and every day the S&P 500 performed on the 60th prior day.
By fixing it as of the first of the month, every trade leader would know where they stand and it’s represented right on the performance chart. When someone first starts, you can begin the performance calculation on the 1st of the next month after the start date.
Jim
Are there any strategies in this program yet?
Thanks
I checked the feasibility of the idea under its limitations and my conclusion is that there is no practical possibility for the developers to make money here.
I also checked Berkshire Hathaway stock and it did not meet these conditions as well. Even Warren Buffett had to make a reset to the strategy quite a few times … 
I would suggest C2 to build a few programs where the highest program would have the highest number of restrictions. This way the developers could find a program to try with a reasonable chance to succeed.
As it is built today, I think that only C2 makes money here… 
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Yes, there are several strategies that have already been certified.
We are working on ways to display these strategies within C2 so that people looking for C2Star strategies can more easily find them.
More soon.
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Under today’s conditions, I will not participate in this program. Conditions are not feasible in the long term.
I did look first time in C2Star strategies. Too early to say anything about a longer time frame performance (the oldest strategy that still holds C2Star badge has only 90 days). Few things become obvious:
- overall C2Star strategies are scalping/day trading oriented
- most of them produce unrealistic equity curve during the non-subscriber period (the old problem limit orders fills without crossing limit price). The moment the first subscriber signed, equity curve becomes flat (look below):
Should they be label as strategies with unrealistic performance and warn potential customers? Time will tell, but in my opinion, the answer is ‘YES’.
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This was my thought as well. Needs to go through the limit price & account for spreads. Some of these futures are farther out and illiquid.
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Guys you are bad mouthing good strategies without any evidence stop it.
These strategies didnt engage in bid ask scalping game.
These strategies traded the most liquid contracts, many of these contracts are 10 times more liquid than the es futures.
To the readers you should do due diligence when in it comes to forums posts criticizing systems especially if its coming from ex developers like the two guys above.
Just show me a single thread when I was bad mouthing strategy and strategy performance 6 months later confirms that I was bad mouthing.
I’m not saying (as suggested by LRCManagement) that these strategies are engaged in bid/ask scalping game. Again, I’m saying that every potential subscriber needs to answer the question of why the equity curve gets flat with a first subscriber (and you need to be blind not confirm it). Does strategy produce the same return with subscribers compare to non-subscriber period?
One occurrence makes a random event, five occurrences make a pattern.
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Its clear you guys dont know whats the c2star program is about. One imporrant thing to know is once these strategies stop performing the c2star certification will be withdrawn and any current subscribers will get kicked out automatically by c2.
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LRC can you explain why most (futures systems ) have flatlined since taking on paying subscribers - seems very odd wouldn’t you agree?
I will help LRC. The answer is simple. 2+ ticks slippage (entry/exit) in real trading with subscribers makes a difference between “green light and orange light” on most of C2Star strategies performance. Unfortunately, rules of C2Start program force only scalping/daytrading strategies being able to apply. And unfortunately, most of them will have a similar problem.
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LRC, C2 is not about developers, it is about subscribers (they are risking money). Do you understand if C2Star will have high ‘recycle’ rate, it means that subscribers will be losing money regardless of how great C2Start rules are (in your opinion).
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You do realize many of them aren’t trading the 1st futures contract right? Sometimes they are, but if you looked, you’d see many trades for futures contracts 3-4 months out, or later. Those have larger bid/ask spreads.
Those are less liquid.
I specifically said I didn’t see much bid/ask spread gaming (the one minute buy at the bid, then sell at the ask). Alot of these trades look to be legit price moves (impressive), however there is no spread involved when it is funny money. That spread is larger with less liquid contracts, and done enough can have a significant affect on returns.
To the readers, form your own opinions, look at the instruments traded, and judge for yourself. Or just wait to see how these strategies do with real money trading them. That also works.
Why would a system trade less liquid futures contracts? I have just done a quick scan of a few and most appear to be trading June, but the mini Dow has a few Sept…?
Maybe it’s part of their strategy? Technical thing? Who knows.
Can the trade leaders themselves kick out the subscribers if they are able to maintain track record without them? Seems a good option to pocket the monthly 1000$ from c2.
Hi,
I have been in the program for 30+ days. Follow my trades and subscribe if you would like. I hold my positions for a longer time than and tend to only trade the same instruments for a long time
It’s my conclusion it’s not possible to get a C2 star. The probability of always outperforming the S&P500 by 1% is one of the reasons, but the biggest reason is because the maximum drawdown is not suitable for anything but a ponzi scheme. DD should be 15 or 20%. No more. And without a reasonably informed investor leader I don’t think there will be any c2 stars for a long time.
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