Collective2 is a joke

I have long been a member of collective2 having seen the potential of the site and its unique format of creating a track record. However, despite that ‘potential’ it has 1 serious pitfall and that is the inability to take this seriously as a business and moderate it as such. Matthew (site owner) has allowed one person, Ross of futures-systems, to pretty much dictate who and what constitutes a good trading system and has allowed him to constantly harass, bully and badger ALL vendors that don’t fit into HIS criteria of a good trading system. There are no strict rules about trading and there is no single way to trade correctly. A great system start when it works and you make money. Despite successes though, not every one will be satisfied simply because trading styles just don’t mesh 100% with everyone’s comfort level, but that’s OK. What is a great system to one may be a bad one to another but that doesn’t make it a bad one overall. Originally that is what appealed to me about C2 because it allowed a wide variety of successful systems/trading styles to show their worth and market themselves to the masses. However, over the last 2 years, the site owner has allowed one person to define what a good system is, Ross. One person who doesn’t even have a successful system himself listed on C2, yet is allowed to make the rules and harass EVERYONE else. My system made over 500% profit in 2 years and yet was STILL ridiculed. I grew tired of having to defend myself verbally simply because I don’t fit into 1 person’s criteria.

Fuck that. I have rapidly lost interest in C2 over the last month and I now resign from the site. Matthew (site owner) has no interest in properly moderating his site and is more interested in simply collecting subscription charges and selling his book than in maintaining an unbiased collective of systems. I am not paying listing fees to be harassed. Furthermore, I have no interest in having to defend myself to one individual that isn’t even the site manager. I belong to a collective of over 200 traders and have contracts with overseas hedge funds. I don’t need C2 and you can bet I won’t be recommending C2 to anyone. In fact, I will be recommending professionals I work with to stay away from C2.

Bottom line…C2 is a joke and just another board where garbage is allowed to accumulate and take over. Don’t bother. There is more value elsewhere.

Six Sigma

I should add that REPEATED complaints about Ross have gone unanswered and unresolved. Basically the site owner is allowing one person to kiss his ass and make the rules.

And just to clarify, this one person is IGNORED by almost 50% of the C2 community because of his stupidity and abrasiveness and yet is still allowed to be a member of this site and still allowed to harass others without abandon. Biased? Oh yeah…

Guarantee my post gets erased in time.

"There are no strict rules about trading and there is no single way to trade correctly. "

You are the poster child of one way NOT to trade correctly.

Remember how you said that you had pretty much broken the mold, and that industry statistics did not apply to you? That you had broken new ground? Remember your brash claims of reaching $400K by Dec 31 (and the bets that you made) and that $1 million was next? And I said you were much more likely to reach $100K than $1 million? And you said that would not happen (couple of weeks ago?)

Remember when I said that you understood Reward and not Risk? And that it was only a matter of time until your Hold&Hope/Averaging Down/martingale trading methods would visit you suddenly? That you were a bug and the windshield was approaching?

And when I revealed how you traded several weeks ago, you suddenly jettisoned hundreds of posts trying to get rid of what I said?

Well, you crashed. Why do you expect sympathy?

I have traded longer than you, and I know a self-deceived trader when I see one. You are a crybaby, and you could no longer keep your WAY over leveraged strategy afloat. It works in an oscillating market, but it fails when the market is under extreme pressure. Again, the market is always right.

Matthew runs a good organization. It is his property, a unique creation, and you are hardly a deserving recipient of sympathy.

My system made over 500% profit in 2 years and yet was STILL ridiculed.

This is nauseating. nobody cares that you made a lot of money using flawed strategies. You learned the hard way. When you keep averaging down your hand, eventually, the House wins. It has deeper pockets than you.

The only person who caused you to plummet is yourself.

I belong to a collective of over 200 traders and have contracts with overseas hedge funds.

God help them if you are their strategy.

Mathew I hope you are listening to this. He has a valid point.

You’re the poster child of assholes. I crashed the system by maxing out against the market check the trades if you can you fucking jerk. I don’t have time to waste on you or C2 anymore.

You haven’t traded longer than anyone and proven anything worthwhile. REPEATED calls to bet me and back up your harassment has gone unanswered. You’re basically a chicken shit that hides behind an internet keyboard. Well, congrats for kissing Matthews ass and making C2 your own site. Your own systems posted on C2 are a fucking joke and show nothing. 50% of the community thinks enough of you to IGNORE you. Basically you have proven you know nothing. Your calling me a crybaby because I bite back at your bullshit, but in reality you’re an arrogant bastard that thins, he knows everything and has yet to show it or prove it.

I am DONE here.

I crashed the system by maxing out against the market check the trades if you can

I think that is what I said. You are often way overleveraged. This time, it caught up to you.

REPEATED calls to bet me and back up your harassment has gone unanswered.

Why do I need to back anything up when you make such a wonderful demonstration of your inability to trade? Repeated warnings that you understand REWARD and not RISK, have now been amply demonstrated.

One of the many posts you jettisoned, I said, “what is the point of betting when the system vendor has no comprehension of the Risk of Ruin”? You confuse your trading with Russian Roulette.

I am DONE here.

Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. But you will be back to whine at least once more, I think.

But, feel free to have the last word. You have confused a lucky streak that finally evened up with trading ability. You can’t cheat death and you can’t cheat the market.

Bottom line: Ross was right.

Six Sigma was a gambler. His system, more or less, boiled down to gambling strategy: he increased his bet each time he lost a hand.

He claimed he had discovered a new trading method. Apparently, he thought his revolutionary trading method held the laws of probability in abeyance. It did not. The laws of probability always – and I mean always – catch up with a Martingale strategy (which I’ll loosely define as a strategy where you increase your bet with each loss… I know, I know, that’s not the precise technical definition). It’s just a question of how much capital you have. He had a lot, and so it took a while. But it happened:


Now Six Sigma preposterously claims that he “threw in the towel” because he was sick of annoying Ross, and sick of the gutless owner of C2 (me), and so on. But the truth is a bit more prosaic. Six Sigma ran out of capital. He received a C2 margin call this morning. He lost his gamble, and had no more money left with which to double-down on his next bet. In the end, he evaporated half his capital. Then he gave up on C2 and its incompetent owner.

Say what you will about Ross. He’s in-your-face. He’s relentless. Yes, I must admit, he can drive you nuts. But, you know what? In this case, he was right. When it wasn’t fashionable (or obvious to newbie traders), he warned about Six Sigma’s system. And if Ross saved one person or two from subscribing to the Six Sigma system, then perhaps someone should say thanks.

I would have believed your motivation to leave C2 if you had still 600K and just closed all trades and left. But this is not what happened. Saying that you "allowed the system to crash" is nonsense. You are just trying to save your face.

It’s illogical to crash your system and what’s left of your reputation as some punitive action against C2. Anyone can visit the time stamps and see that you blew out and them wrote it off. You’re absolutely doomed to failure if you blame Ross for your poor trading.

As Jules has stated; we see through your ruse.

2 things for me. I don’t disagree with Ross’s statements, but I will be much relieved that we see the end of this argument. I think it was a little too much harrasment, but Ross did call it. That is not to say, however, that it took a mega-genius to find that strategy blows up accounts. The irony is the timing, and, yes, I agree it is a ruse. The other thing, while my own system was buying into the dips, I was never averaging down with as much leverage as it would take to blow an account up the way sixsigma did.

High win percentages are not winning systems by themselves. Many vendors with 95+% win percentages lose big at some point, which is usually because there are no stops as the case was here. It is one thing to not use stops, but quite another to not have stops and average down. Obviously not going to win.

The writing was on the wall for anybody just looking at the volatility in the equity curve prior to that.

I understand completely sixsigma’s complaints, but maybe it took a more constructive series of posts to actually convince the vendor that it does not work.

I have a kind of rule in my strategy development. If I find that real world trading is nearly twice my backtested original assumed DD, I would quit. His DD was 40% prior to this, but now at 60% going on 80, it would be time to throw in the towell, because no system, no matter how great the reward, is worth losing 80%. That is just a rule of thumb for me.