Hi Matthew and Team,
Is there an option to view the chart and monthly returns from a commission free view? If not, is that something you could add?
Thank you.
There is not currently anything like this. And, upon reflection, I am not sure there is a huge need for this.
Let’s look at the possible reasons someone might want to see such a thing (a system equity curve, and a system’s monthly results, without any commissions or subscriber fees applied).
Perhaps it might make a system developer feel better to see his own system’s results untainted by real-life costs, but even if such a system developer could flip a switch to see this imaginary equity curve, he wouldn’t necessarily control what the other users of C2 see, when they visit his system.
(What I’m trying to point out is that, when you, as system developer, apply cost-structure-A to your system results, or cost-structure-B, you are not telling C2 to show this particular cost structure to all subscribers who visit your page. You are merely telling C2 to show you the cost structure you’ve requested. C2 always shows the “default” cost structure to any new visitor to your system, unless that visitor requests to apply a different cost structure to the system page.)
So, while it’s possible to create another view onto your own system – one without any real-life trading costs – what is the reason someone would want to see that? Where could a system be traded at zero cost?
I’m just trying to push back on feature-creep - and the idea that if a software idea is possible, it should be built. I want to make sure that there is an actual compelling use-case for any feature we add to C2.
Perhaps there is such a compelling case for what you request. I just want to understand what it is before committing to build the feature.
Matthew
Hi Matthew,
>So, while it’s possible to create another view onto your own system – one without any real-life trading costs – what is the reason someone would want to see that?
I made a similar post a few weeks ago. As you know, there are 3 things that will pull down the real-life performance from the ideal: 1) slippage, 2) commissions and 3) subscription fees. Let’s assume that the system has autotraders and the slippage is accounted for in the track record with actual fill data.
Now let’s give an example of a C2 system that started with a $20,000 simulated account and after a year it grew 25% to $25,000. However, if that account had started with $50,000 it might have grown by 30% over that year, because the subscription fees and the commissions make up a smaller portion of the trading costs.
So what’s the solution? The best solution would be to allow the subscriber to put in the amount that they plan to trade (in addition to their broker) and the equity curve reflects the returns that they would have made (hypothetically, of course). If this is too difficult, then having an option to display the equity curve with no commissions or fees would allow a subscriber to estimate the effect of the commissions and fees for the amount they plan to trade (by observing the difference between the two equity curves)…
Gary
I noticed C2pro has that feature, but at $450/month I would just do it manually. From a developers view, i find it useful knowing my true returns without c2 and “typical broker” fees.
@Matthew, The reason is simple: with the performance with commissions is a function of the portfolio starting capital which should not be the case. Otherwise a way should be found to remove starting capital dependency from performance chart.
Equity curve might include commissions but not the subscription fees. This should be outside of equity curve because the fees are fixed amount. What it comes up to is this: when there is no trading then performance should be flat.
Market - USA regulators do not agree with you. They insist subscription fees and commissions be included. I’ll see what I can do about adding an option for people to view results without any costs applied. That should be okay, as long as it is not the default option shown to users, and as long as users must specifically request it.
Hi Matthew,
>I’ll see what I can do about adding an option for people to view results without any costs applied.
That would be very useful from a subscriber’s perspective – thank you.
From a system vendor’s perspective, I’m wondering if the easy solution would be to allow for a vendor to re-scale the system upwards. With my ETF system, I made the mistake of starting with a low starting capital of $10,000. The system can be traded with this amount, but by the time the subscription and autotrade fees are factored in the performance is not as impressive. In the short term I solved this problem by offering the system for free for a few months while the track record is being built, but as soon as I start charging the monthly returns will drop by about 0.75% across the board. If the system could be re-scaled to a starting capital of $50,000, then the monthly returns would only drop about 0.15% from the free case.
Gary
Thanks Matthew. Much appreciated!!
I agree with Gary. It would be very nice to have the raw data without commissions and fees so we could create our own spreadsheets based on our own costs. You have several options on the drop down box. Just add one more. Please. 
yes, I also think it is useful.
