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Compare XIV vs. Volatility Strategies


Tomorrow we will know the survivors (and casualties) for the VIX systems.

“Only when the tide goes out do you discover who’s been swimming naked.” - Warren Buffet


Both were quite liquid in after hours trading for at least an hour after the close. Bid/ask spreads were often 1 cent on XIV, and usually less than 10 cents. SVXY spreads were about 10-40 cents.


U saw $xiv and $svxy fall 90% after hour trading right?


Yeah, I saw it. I think I might have been the first (or second) here to point to that after-hours collapse as it was happening.


how many on this chart survived yesterday ? or they are all good after today ?


The chart is a bit hard to see right now as far as the big moves. I or anyone else can run it later this week and take a snap shot to show it again when it is a bit clearer. I will do one this weekend once everything from this week is included.

Here is a closer up view. Basically all of them are outperforming XIV now! RIP XIV :grinning: I replaced XIV with SVXY. The full drop isn’t show and the full effects of today are not going to show up in the graph yet. My interpretation is that now most of the managers at least on this chart have been proved right that they are worth the expense. My strategy NOT YOUR FATHER’S VIX is approaching the 6 month mark and I will probably increase the price slightly, but will keep it the same for current subscribers.



You can use the Grid and type in VIX or Volatility for strategy name and see most of the VIX based strategies for yourself in all their quantifiable glory, warts and all.


Look how well David and his hedges did!


Thanks for the shout out Charles! :slight_smile: But to be transparent, in this case the options hedges weren’t really in play this week as I had moved to cash on Thursday of last week and then entered into a smallish long vol position Monday morning, which I’ve now phased out of. But thanks!!


Interesting, and impressive either way. Well done!



I think that you are doing great work in your strategies and you are the star of the month!! :wine_glass:


Good to see that you give credit to one of your competitors and I also have to give credit to you since you avoided the crash. As you know, you asked me several times to subscribe to one of your volatility systems and my answer was always the same: I do not subscribe to any vol system unless it is hedged, preferably with option. David Juday this time was not saved through his option play but he exited short vol and entered long vol one day before the crash, what a great move.


Thanks Charles, David, and Karl!!! :slight_smile:


Thanks for the update…



My volatility strategy. I am go to code it up soon on C2. Did any VIX strategies go bid? @CharlesTines



Do you mean bust? I don’t know what you mean by bid. Some did go bust but not as many vix strategies went bust as you would have thought.


A decent volatility strategy should be able to detect longs or short in the underlying implied volatility index (VIX). Volatility strategies using ETFs, options or futures should be able to make high alpha returns when delta and vega increases in the market, like what we have seen recently (the VIX index has gone bid recently aka people are buying the bid price and increasing its price). So, did any systems make money from going long the VIX index? Are all these strategies that you have been looking at just simply short VIX benefiting from contango in the term structure? If this is the case then the benchmark should be XIV or SVXY. If not, then surely VIX based strategies that can go long or short the VIX index should just be benchmarked against the S&P 500 index or the risk-free rate as the VIX index uses a semi-parametric forecasting approach.



Good luck Frank. Looks like a good curve. Nice negative correlation in times of stress.

Looking fwd to seeing it here. :beer:


Yes some have certainly made significant new highs such as VXX Bias and the strategies by DavidJuday. There are also many that have not necessarily bet huge on long vix but have either been in cash etc.


One of the best papers on trading implied volatility. I could not attached the PDF file but google it. Enjoy.

@DogZebra_Investing cheers. My other algorithm has a better equity curve, almost linear with a drawdown of 4% in 10 years but that trades equities. See my other post if you want more detail. Hopefully I will get some time later this month.
@CharlesTines I like your comparison analysis, good job. If you could do this for the long/short volatility strategies it should give us a C2 risk adjusted return average. I wonder if this is positive or negative overall for C2 strategies. It will show the winners from the losers. There must have been some VIX C2 strategies that make some money recently? If not then I might get some subs :slight_smile: