The opinions expressed in these forums do not represent those of C2, and any discussion of profit/loss is not indicative of future performance or success. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading. You should therefore carefully consider whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your financial condition. You should read, understand, and consider the Risk Disclosure Statement that is provided by your broker before you consider trading. Most people who trade lose money.
Hello traders,
I started this topic yesterday (The Heart-Mind “Game”) but it was lost due to a system glitch. Beginning again with a slightly different title: Developing The Heart-Mind Trading Edge.
Hopefully a discussion on this topic will inspire us all as it can prove to be the most critical part of successful trading regardless of trading style. Please feel free to chime in…
All the best,
Forex4Profit
Here are what I consider to be 5 very critical heart-mind issues that can affect successful trading:
Fear of loss: Not being willing to take the loss even if you have a stop in the market. Talking about the attitude of the heart behind it: stop or no stop. Greed may be the other side of the same coin.
Impatience: Not waiting for the market to present your trading edge so you can place the trade. Impatience can cause us to talk ourselves into a trade which can be very costly, not just in terms of money, but also the time spent “waiting” to get out.
Not in the zone: Not focused…distracted, physically tired or stressed.
Over-Confidence: Can be detrimental especially after a winning streak or a very profitable single trade. Lack of self-confidence can also be costly as it can cause us not to trust our system and follow someone or something else, without even testing that method first. Not to mention, following the market blindly: “Look, a red candle…let me sell.” …and you know that you know better, but the temptation is there.
Lack of discipline: While trading our edge (not following our rules) or even in our daily preparation routine for trading.
For those who would like to take the Tharp Trader Test, here is the link that was posted yesterday:
http://tharptradertest.com/default.aspx?question=1
(I posted the link in response to a post by another trader yesterday)
Forex4Profit
P.S. Not affiliated with the Van Tharp Institute in any way.
Thanks for posting the test link. My results were of an Innovative Trader, it said I possessed 2 of 3 core values to be a successful trader, needing minor work to hone the 3rd. I agree with the results for the most part, but as is written at the bottom, it is a rough estimate of a traders profile. Limiting the test to 35 questions to make it quick and not consuming too much time.
Oh yeah, let me use this post to advertize myself LOL!
LOL! Looks like you got some clicks on the link you posted too. Very nice.
Glad you took the test. The other poster (I think his name was Richard) said that it is very important that traders use systems that are compatible with their personality/temperament. Glad your results weren’t too far off from what you know of yourself.
Take care and all the best in your trading.
Forex4Profit
Food For Trading Thought: Trade what you see, not what you think or how you feel.
Have a great day today!
Hi there,
I have to ask…do you really put on a trade and walk away and forget it because it is automated?
Have heard about some of these systems…not totally against them as I have not delved in too deeply. What I have heard is that most systems do allow for a person to step in and trade manually if necessary, and that many times traders interrupt the “trading machine” because they couldn’t stand the “heat in the kitchen” so-to-speak. Also heard that after a while, maybe a year or two, they need to be modified or scrapped as they no longer work as well because of market changes.
Would love to hear your take on it. Maybe there are some good ones out there worth taking a look at.
Thanks for posting,
Forex 4 Profit
I am an IT Architect and invested 5 years of development (at least) into this concept, so I’m very confident in MTrader (https://collective2.com/details/90394685) by now. MTrader is not an “use a tool” to gamble system. It is a distributed solution with 3 windows services, IB data feed, Artificial inteligence (neural network), position management, real-time stop management, real-time profit target management and more. No human can cope with that!
I stabilized the Collective2 version (direct IB works well better!) in mid December 2014 and it already became one of the best Collective2 systems.
By the way, for those who is interested to use MTrader (it is called MGM Intraday) directly with Interactive Brokers, I can arrange a good deal too
Hello again Yury,
Then you could probably be a good source of info to help me understand what is available. Clicked the link: MTrader (https://collective2.com/details/90394685). That system is showing a loss overall thus far, am I right?
I believe systems and humans each have their limitations, but, since it takes a human to build/engineer any system, I’d say the human mind and eye will always have the advantage. The limitation of the human will also surface in the mechanism…mho.
By the way, any answers to my questions above? Not trying to provoke a debate, but I’d really like to get some genuine information about these trading devices.
Take care,
Forex 4 Profit
As I mentioned previously, due to integration issues with Collective2 the system did not really work until mid December. This is where the loss came from. It is very well illustrated by this image:
Here is how it really performs:
Last 30 : +1.8%
Last 90: +2.0%
And to answer your question - humans have way more weaknesses. Their reliability is below 50% (subjective view).
So when you add a spoon of s$#t into a barrel of honey, you get a barrel of s$#t 
Humans are good in generalization tasks, i.e. selecting a system or method. They can choose and entrust execution.
Humans are bad at actual execution. You can find a lot information about attempts to self-discipline a trader, calm down and become a “robot”.
So, why bother, just choose a robot!
Yury,
This is really what I was referring to.
Also, your other post…about the barrel etc. Was that really necessary?
Anyway, I think every trader should use whatever they think works best for them. Maybe one day I’ll have another system that uses one…who knows.
All the best,
Forex 4 Profit
There are a lot of gambling systems (majority to be honest). They all look great at the beginning. You should learn to discriminate such system no matter how attractive they are. The good algorithm should stand a test of time.
Please research this post:
Thanks for that link to the topic on the best Collective 2 system. Have seen the heading before. Will take a look.
The problem with ‘Pure Algo Systems’ is they cannot take into account how human psychology, and other ‘abstract’ ideas factor into successful trades… IE how the federal reserves actions and minute word inflections can affect works markets. Also they cannot trade for the ‘long term’ extrapolating successfully into the future. They just scalp pennies in front of the steam roller, welp, until the day the steamroller wins… A human mind can calculate a multitude of complexities and understand human emotion and weakness, where a bot is just a fancy calculator. IE a nuke hits USA and your stupid algo gets 1000 buy signals and buys the world and you check your account and youre bankrupt. In the meantime you get a 2% return a month of your time. Algos are ok for indicators, to stimulate the process of the human mind deciding on what to trade and how. There’s no holy grail in this game, you gotta pay the piper and learn what works for you…
Good thinking Brett. There are positives and negatives to every approach. Yes, the key is to find what works best for you.
Also they cannot trade for the ‘long term’ extrapolating successfully into the future.
That is a good point! I also heard that they need to be monitored to make sure they’re continuing to trade as they were designed to trade. I wonder if the users of robots turn them off or “pause” them during news releases? That would be interesting to see won’t it: how they would trade then.
One thing is for sure. It is impossible to create a robot with a human mind, but there is always the opportunity for a trader to develop the skills to trade with less emotion. That is the closest we can come to if we want the best of both trading worlds.
Thanks for sharing those thoughts.
Here is an example.
I just read Pembina’s Earnings release (Symbol: PBA).
My ‘mental’ trading indicators just alerted me that if you buy this stock on the Open tomorrow AM, that you will have a 90%+ chance of a winning trade within 7 days.
If you are willing to scale in, using 1/3 position size each time, these odds increase to 100%.
What is anyone’s best algorithmic generated trade saying for tomorrows open? Anyone want to take a gentlemen’s bet for pride? Let me hear your picks.
I’ll have to stand out of the way on the gentleman’s bet…lol…, but I think your point is well taken. All the best if you place that trade in the morning.
Your thinking is in a stone age. Please educate yourself on Artificial Intelligence and especially on the neural networks. Neural networks are unbeatable for the “trading for the ‘long term’ extrapolating successfully into the future.”
