Even 30% annual returns with any consistency and low DD in a publicly available product is incredibly rare if not unheard of.
1 Like
It seems the louder they boast here the harder they fall.
wow, this zip4x is following the same fate with other failed systems, martingale system. Please see the DD, more than $500K, just wonder how the subscribers are following him. I should say, it is better cut loss while you still have capital rather than sorry. Thatâs what happen when you are against the trend, how long your capital can sustain until move into your favor 
. Only 2 possibilities: 1. you use simulator money 2. you are stubborn, can not see the fact where the market is always right. Good luck for all his subscribers, Zip4x.
Please see the trade for GBP/JPY 12/30/15 - 01/28/2016. the DD was 96.69% . In the real world, what kind of trader can hold his or her positions with extremely high DD. Donât you think you will receive a margin call and where is extra funds come from to make sure you are in the market. I am welcome for any comments if I am wrong, especially from his real subscribers who pass those periods or may be his current subscribers who take same position with him right now. I bet you can not sleep well at night 
If I follow his program, I will use his strategy as my indicator and always put a different position. If he buy, I will take short and put stop loss because I know, I follow the marketâs trend.
3 Likes
I couldnât agree with you more. It just amazes me that there as so many gullible subscribers (excuse my language and I am sorry to say thatâŚbut it is truth) out there that are literally throwing away their money to so-called system developers who are doing nothing but just âdoubling downâ and just praying and hoping the trend will eventually turn their way. I canât believe folks are paying $600 for this system with about 30 or so current subscribers.
Lesson learned from this thread: subscribe to only TOS system, when the manager have no skin in the game, they wonât manage risk. All they care for biggest % gain to sucker in more subs.
Also I think good to avoid auto trade so you can manage your own risk at your own risk tolerance. The manager might have much higher DD or risk tolerance than you. He might willing to risk a 25% drop vs you should set a stop loss at10% your self.
5 Likes
femy_c,
I couldnât agree with you more. It just amazes me that there as so many
gullible subscribers (excuse my language and I am sorry to say
thatâŚbut it is truth) out there that are literally throwing away their
money to so-called system developers who are doing nothing but just
"doubling down" and just praying and hoping the trend will eventually
turn their way. I canât believe folks are paying $600 for this system
with about 30 or so current subscribers.
2 Likes
VixTrader, having the TOS badge might not also mean much these daysâŚas there are developers who are making much more from their subs than how much âskin in the gameâ they apparently have. Case in point, this system that just got busted while charging subscribers $300/month. Having more than over 20 subscribers, that was more than the 5k " skin in the game" he had and the systme just got busted.
Screenshot: http://prntscr.com/bqz8th
Ironically, this system went bust just a day or so after he got a 5 star review from a sub. Martingale or not, point is a lot of these so-called top strategies featured here on C2 are just folks guessing, holding and hoping for something positive.
1 Like
Thatâs true KT3,
we need to put more variables for subscribe a good strategy, such as: TOS, numbers of trade, DD, length of time and no martingale system. For courtesy, you need to put stop loss also for emergency exit. You donât want your account blow up because 1 mistake in your trade. Make a little , make a little and blow up your account.
2 Likes
Thatâs really true KT3,
When someone subscribes any strategy, he or she must have understand the chart. I think all his subscribers are clueless what is going on in the market. Even though he won 97 percent, looks nice in the paper, Zip4x is not a big players who can influence the markets. It is true in this C2 has $ 2 M ( just pretend this is a real money 
) , but in term of institution scale who manages real money in billion dollars ,Zip4x is nothing. Therefore, for small investors / traders, you must respect in big pictures. If he has open trade in GBP, YOU have to know, right now is DOWN TREND. I bet, he will never tell the truth what is going on in the market to his subscribers or may be ignore a questions from his subscribers. No one care your money than yours. If you lost $3k-$5K, it is still easy for recovery but if you lost than $10K, it will damage your physocolgy
2 Likes
@KT3 that strategy you posted the leader has $3k in the game. Just looking at that alone and itâs a option strategy. You know itâs a lottery strategy, buying momo options and swinging for the fences. That might be something gamblers and other high risk investor is looking for, not some typical retail trader. If the manager or the investor losing $3k thatâs nothing. You wonât see a 300k TOS strategy buying 50%+ on a single option position. My strategy we spend 1% of our cash on Friday to take a gamble on a momo option. But itâs Just for fun.
But to my pt, itâs a $3k TOS system. Thatâs peanuts in a way of trading size. Subscribers shouldnât expect the manager to protect the principal or watch risk. Because he prob wonât care the DD is to 99% or lose everything on 1 trade. Heâs willing to risk everything to have a chance to double on the trade.
2 Likes
TOS means nothing for responsible traders, what reals matter is how traders take care of their investorsâ Money, why having actual real accounts and routing automatically trades for C2, a trader must open a new account and pay 99$/month to C2, more much expensive costs to trade on broker side? No reason at allâŚ
All this type of systems, TOS or not, will blow their accounts, they are more gamblers then traders, it is just a question of timeâŚ
1 Like
Why does TOS mean nothing? Where is the background to your claim for ââŚwill blow their accountâ ?
I got 3 of my own systems trading in my IB account where there is a good amount of money in it + TOS.
All profitable since inception here on C2 (and beyond) and I intend to keep it that way.
1 Like
Good for you. But here is someone who just blew up his own TOS accountâŚbecause apparently the money he gets from subs (at $300 a pop) most likely outweighs the little bitty amount of his own TOS money being traded.
TOS is not a guarantee for success. You are still paying someone to trade for you. If you want to pay someone $300 for an unproven track record because they have a TOS image by their strategy you can! I dont think C2 should apply any further weight to TOS other than what they are already doing.
There are good strategies that are not TOS certified and are not martingale. TOS helps to weed out martingale strategies (because no one in their right mind would have endless capital to chase a 90+% win rate), but it does not guarantee the strategy creator is successful. Anyone with an interest in the markets can sign up on C2 and list a strategy⌠given that most traders lose money it should be apparently obvious that some TOS certified systems are bad systems with no discipline or rules followed.
Investing in a strategy on C2 should be just like investing in a company. If you donât do your own homework and due diligence then you have no one to blame but yourself when you lose money or the signal provider decides to take his subscribers off a cliff.
In my opinion, what must be taken in account by C2, is to inform investors if a trader route to C2 trades executed in real account, and what is the balance of that account, this will be a useful information, not if trader is executed trades also in a real account with C2, in a very expensive brokers available and also paying a very high fees to C2, so I maintain TOS means nothing concerning to investors trust, traders behind it can be good or bad, as in systems without TOS.
Sorry if I have not been able to express my idea clear in English, my reference to blow accounts, is to all type of system refer to topic of this post, not to TOS!
Like you said, individual due diligence is the key. I think it would be helpful if individuals drilled down a bit in doing their homework by actually looking at the âlittle detailsâ of each strategy, like actually opening up that spreadsheet (âcsvâ link) that is associated with each strategy. For example, zip4x in one of his trades doubles down about 10x before he turns over a 150K unrealized loss into an eventual 3K realized gain. Who in their right mind would want to sacrifice and go to sleep continuing to lose over 100K day after day and then holding and hoping that things will turn around in their favor and make a measly 3K at the end. His subscribers are just looking at what is on the surface without drilling down enough to see what is âburiedâ in the spreadsheet. Potential subscribers would be quite surprise to find out what they are really âbuyingâ with just a simple click of âcsvâ link.
2 Likes
Have you seen this commercial? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_Ql_7NCk0o
I agree with you. Fortunately C2 allows for open discussion of trades like what you witnessed in zip4x. Unfortunately there is nothing they can do but allow insanity systems to exist.
It is up to subscribers to make their own conclusions from their own research and subscribe to strategies that are suitable for their own personal financial situation. It is always a wise idea to reach out to the developers and ask appropriate questions and make sure you receive appropriate answers before proceeding.
C2 has made it easy to subscribe to strategies but its up to subscribers to make sure they are making the right decision. There is forum topics posted earlier that goes over some good questions to ask system developers that should be reviewed imho by everyone.
Funny commercial. As a former financial advisor myself, CFP (like TOS) really doesnât mean squat though these days. Former colleagues who are CFP are all theory and have no practical clues about what actually investing folks money means. Anyway, again it is all about people doing their homework before entrusting their money to someone else to invest/trade for them, regardless of their certification, badges etc (e.g. CFP, TOS).
Strategy providers cannot offer investment advice to subscribers. But they can help answer questions about their strategies.
Something I notice that is pretty common around here is people love high flying strategies that do not have a draw down in their performance. The drawdown is a crucial part of a strategies performance and should be analyzed in more detail then the strategy when it is out performing.
No one enjoys a draw down but they happen and should be reviewed more thoroughly. Subscribers shouldnt over look draw down performance.
Draw down periods can inform subscribers of what to expect in the future. Will the strategy recover and continue its performance or will it implode and never trade the same way again?
If a strategy has draw downs but they recover quickly and do not risk large amounts of capital when market conditions are not in the strategies favor, well thats a good strategy and should be ranked higher in my book⌠maybe there can be some metrics gathered to weight draw down period and recovery times.
Subscribers would be curious to look at this (link below)âŚfrom probably the highest charging developer on C2 at $600 a pop every month. An example here, is a hypothetical 270K risk for 2.7K eventual gain, so basically a subscriber must be willing to be in the hole and go to sleep being down 100x of what he or she could potentially make. Ask yourself, is a $100 loss for a potential $1 gain really worth the risk of your hard earned money? This is what an astute potential future subscribers should be looking at.
All you have to do is open up the âDownload CSVâ link from each individual system and compare column âKâ with column âOââŚto access your own individual risk tolerance, regardless of whether or not if a system is TOS. Hope this helps others.
2 Likes
