Margin call

hi matthew

i dont understand the margin call i got for my posistion in NGF07

i had 70.000 in available margin for this trade and yet it was closed by c2 for a loss of 11.000 .

this trade would now be in profit.

could yuo please rectify this

many thanks


Margin required overnight= $2,000 per contract. You tried to hold 48 contracts. That means you needed $96,000 available margin, which you did not have.


ok i wasnt aware of overnight requirement

lesson learnt

A better lesson learned would not to hold 48 contracts of Natural Gas. This is not exactly what you would call a serene commodity. Holding this many on the available margin is what is called WAY WAY WAY overleveraged.

when you trade natural gas as successfully as me ill take your advice.

besides i am still learning and its a mistake that hasnt cost me dearly and i wont make it again.

A better lesson learned would not to hold 48 contracts of Natural Gas. This is not exactly what you would call a serene commodity. Holding this many on the available margin is what is called WAY WAY WAY overleveraged.

its hard to seriously take your comment “when you trade natural gas as successfully as me”, while you basically

1) walk around in a minefield wearing a blindfold

2) keep smacking the ground with a sledge hammer

3) have 10 time bombs strapped on

Didn’t your problem with the overnight trade teach you anything?? And that is a FULLSIZE WINTER contract, for God’s sake!!!

Does the term “Lock Limit” mean anything to you? Like when you want to get out, but can’t? Read this about a SINGLE contract: Maximum Daily Price Fluctuation $3.00 per mmBtu ($30,000 per contract)

its even harder to take seriously someone who doesnt eppear to be able to trade anything successfully.

besides my record in trading nat gas speaks for itself

and like i said i am new and learning at a fast pace.

whats your excuse?

> when you trade natural gas as successfully as me ill take your advice.

>ok i wasnt aware of overnight requirement

Lots of success trading NG and you never heard of overnight margin requirements?

I don’t think “ill” subscribe.


even in my ignorance im still making money and improving all the time.

give me 3 months and see how im doing then as im

running out of mistakes to make.

best regards


p.s results are all that counts

"besides my record in trading nat gas speaks for itself. and like i said i am new and learning at a fast pace. whats your excuse? "

Your record in trading natural gas doesn’t speak for anything. You have:

– jumped out of an airplane without a parachute. But like they say, the trip is pleasant; its the sudden stop at the bottom that is the problem.

– Standing in front of a train going 80 MPH, because you want to get a closeup look at the headlight

– not learned about something called “Risk of Ruin.” Your trading of Natural Gas screams “I DON’T KNOW WHAT I AM DOING. ANYONE ELSE WANNA PLAY RUSSIAN ROULETTE? I LOADED ALL THE CHAMBERS, TO MAKE IT MORE FUN.”

– And you like to chuckle that I am down 5%, when you are setting people up for bankruptcy? Who do you think pays for the margin calls, if someone is suddenly out a half a million in 30 minutes based on your trade?

Did you really read the last note? Max move of $30,000 for one contract? And you were trying 48 contracts on $70,000 available margin? When natural gas can make daily price moves (UNLEVERAGED) of 5% or more?

I will admit though, your trading record does speak for itself in one thing. You could be an appendix in that fellows book “What I Learned Losing a Million Dollars” – by Jim Paul, Brendan Moynihan

And my excuse? Stay away from the ignorant if you value your bankroll…

In summary, don’t go into a gunfight armed with a popgun…

And haven’t you lost about $60,000 in a week?

The theory of running out of mistakes to make is a classic example of not appreciating the horrendous complexity of trading. I have been trading commodities for 12 years or so and stocks for over 20. The vast majority of those who have traded for 30 or more, probably mostly realize that they have a lot to learn, and that humility is a lot wiser than making naive statements. Those who find success learn to navigate drawdowns that can last for months to a year or so, study money management, seek to constantly learn and improve, etc. The market geometry consistently shifts. Everything a person learns may be mostly irrelevant a few years from now.

hi ross

i appreciate your comments and your quite correct

my money management skills need tightening.

all i ask is to check my system in 3 months

i am here for the long haul and believe i will

prove myself.

not arrogant just confident.

best regards



for the record i dont trade full size nat gas but e miny ng.

i havent lost 60k in a week it was 35k and i didnt lose it

trading NG.

the system is up 52k after 6 weeks.

however i do take on board all criticism

and thanks for the feedback.



People here are generally glad to help. You can pull a lot of knowledge from the people here. We feed off each other and teach each other. But it starts with being willing to learn.

Coming across like "look at my track record" or things like that will only draw criticism. From what I see, you are only about 5-10 years away from successful trading and market prognizotication. You can (possibly dramatically) shorten that time, if you will listen, teach, learn and work very hard along with the rest of us.

Personally, I have gone through about 5 or 6 complete and total recyclings/retreadings to get here. And I consider myself near the foot of the mountain. As are 99% of the GOOD traders. There is still a HELL of a lot to learn. We are shooting at a moving, complex target.

To me, wisdom is when a person realizes how much he/she still has to learn, rather than. There are a lot of good, helpful people. And there are a lot of sharks. But the saddest, is those who think they have arrived, and wind up dragging a lot of people down with them (who were convinced that person had finally reached the mountaintop).

After we learn about 100 things that are important to consider in this field, that only leaves about 1000 or more things to learn.


"When you trade natural gas as successfully as me I’ll take your advice."

So, basically when Ross is able to draw down 32.71% (20061120 to 20061130) of his portfolio in one trade, and manages to lose $30K+ and $11K+ on one trade, he’ll be qualified. Got it. Thanks for the correction.

“all i ask is to check my system in 3 months”

… and meanwhile you’re perfectly willing to accept subscribers and lose their money in the same haphazard way you’ve lost yours. If you’re in it for the long haul, and honest about it, perhaps a warning to potential subscribers is in order. Something to the effect of… “Be forewarned that my money management skills need tightening, and that I intend on improving my strategy at your expense. If you’re trading real money (why would someone subscribe otherwise?), then I suggest you consider waiting at least four months to see if my strategy improves.”

you might trade emini, but the thread started with asking about NGF07, which if memory serves me, is fullsize.

Correct!! Personally, I have only stuck toes in the water so far, and am not taking ANY subs yet. And don’t know when, or if, I will. This is more a hobby. There is a huge diff between trading your own money, and other people’s. Frankly, I think a year or two of observing and learning is in order if anyone wants to offer a serious system to others. There is a serious lack of appreciation for money mangement or proper leveraging. And way too many get caught up with averaging down or pumping their equity curve to impress others.

PEOPLE!!! If it seems to good to be true…!!! Althuogh there are plenty of people out there who seem ready to follow the Pied Piper with their hard-earned money.

Unfortunately, it makes some unhappy when you try to point out the flaws of those who ARE trying to actively solicit customers. Like maybe “it doesn’t really seem work” or “a goodlooking track record may be less than it seems.” Apparently, only people who have a beautiful equity curve are allowed to offer opinions.

Since it seems less than 2% of the systems here have either staying power or serious profitability, I don’t know why everyone is in such a rush to fail or sink others.

hi lew

im pretty sure all potential subscribers are intelligent enough

to decide if any system fits their personnal risk levels.

im hearing lots of views about how poor im doing and

how much money im going to lose but havent had any

opinions about making money trading.

any ideas?