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Similar Futures

The following have all recently appeared on C2 with remarkably similar and almost ‘perfect’ track records: ~2% DD, perfect equity curves, same monthly sub fee, staggering monthly returns and day trading only…not that I have a big issue with that and it is very early days still…but the similarities are remarkable…

  • Europe markets
  • Huya So
  • C2 star dax and fgbl
  • Day trading ES
  • MINI DOW 123071731
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I couldn’t find one. This look amazing! They are so good they are scary to me though.

Haha yes very scary if up to 10+ trades per day go into reverse! I always start with lowest risk systems when filtering, hence this crop of systems, which I guess the creator had in mind;)

OK lets try this for the missing one:

Looks to me like these are scalping systems. But the Europe mkt strategy looks like its flatlined since it had autotrading subs.

Anyways, I’d give them at least another 3-4 months more to see if they are sustainable.

I beleive part of the flatlining is due to systems joining C2 Star - ie they trade fewer lots, take less risk to comply…

Good start, but can anyone show me a system that has produced these sort of returns over the long term?

No… and that is the rub…BUT the sheer volume of trades with some of these systems highlights their potential. Three months should give a clearer picture.

Great Finds! Conclusion: Wait 3-6 more months to see how they do with actual real money subscribers. Time to do some digging… :face_with_monocle:

-All of these systems are “new” C2 people that have all shown up within a month or two this spring.
-All of these systems are $125
-All of these systems are people in the “UK” or “US” with generic sounding names. Some sound kind of like broken English in the Description (if there is one).
-All of these systems have very similar trading strategies.
-All of these systems seem to have very good risk controls.
-Most of these systems will trade futures farther out than the current contract - less liquidity there.

The whole thing is kinda fishy. But who knows. They might be huge money makers for subscribers and C2. The good news is that some people have subscribed, so we can watch their real money performance here on out.

Europe Mkt: Trades instruments I am not as familiar with. Not sure of the spread on these. He’s not a bid/ask gamer like we’ve seen on C2 before. The trades are held for at least a little time. Gone nowhere since first subscriber.

Huya So: Similar to the first one, but trades NQ and Gold. Done ok since first subscriber.

C2Star dax and fgbl: This is a little fishy, just because he trades some less liquid futures on Dax (Sep). The spread on these could be much more than C2 states (we’ll find out now that he has real subscribers). Most trading in early AM, when most Americans sleep.

Day trading ES: Definitely some bid/ask spread magic here. Not blatant, as he doesn’t hold them for a minute or two, but when you get the favorable spread treatment with funny money, it adds up with almost 300 trades. Trades 24/7, probably a quant system.

MINI DOW: Does trade instruments that are less liquid (futures contracts 3-6 months out). Alot of price moves are legit, also getting favorable spread treatment. Trades mostly early AM (US time).

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Loool

And dog zebra is at it again. You literally know nothing. These systems most likely are in the c2star program thats why they have tight risk controls and charge exactly 125 dollars per month. Go read c2star program requirements before making fun of yourself, hence one of the requirements is to charge 125 monthly.

It would be nice if this thread could stay open. If @LRCManagement and @DogZebra_Investing can just not fight we can keep it going. @DogZebra_Investing just don’t reply to that comment.

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I won’t. Not sure why Matthew allows this guy on the forum. 90% of his posts are just disparaging me. Kids got a vendetta.

The $125 is explained by C2Star. So that’s nice. Risk metrics are good, which is why they qualify.

However this is all without TOS. I’ll be curious if they can keep this up with real money invested and real spreads to maintain.

Also, I’m curious where these strategies were before the C2Star program started. I mean even without that program these systems would draw in subscribers pretty easily with that kind of performance, correct?

Yes without the c2star program it may attract subscribers easily but there is a huge diffrence between : it may attract subscribers and a guaranteed 1000 dollars monthly income by c2 if they pass the star requirements, which will attract some serious developers to join c2star.

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Agree with this. If monthly income is guaranteed, developer has good motivation
to keep DD in check. And that is very good for developer, subs and C2.

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I guess thats a big step in the right direction for C2 and this may hopefully benefit everyone.

Looks like the only systems (the systems mentioned above) that seem qualify for the c2star program are probably scalping systems for now.

In the future, It would be nice to see an expansion of the rules to allow other types of strategies such as allowing a slightly higher drawdown of say a 10% overall drawdown or an intraday drawdown of a higher percentage etc.

The C2 star program is aimed at day traders initially - to attract more short term lower risk trade systems to C2. Apparently, the systems vendors requested the systems be made private while qualifying for C2 star status, which explains no previous subs - but it seems strange this applied to all of them. Why would these systems trade less liquid contracts - which would explain why I was slipped by 10%+ on one Euro bund trade? So are we to assume that because C2 star status pays the vendors to trade it has attracted a host of systems all trading a very similar way? However, as this is a ‘mere’ 1000 bucks per month their own trading would surely more than compensate in a single day in some cases, unless they have more than one system here;)) The fact that TOS is absent is also strange as Dog Zebra highlights…very few if any have descriptions, completed trader profiles…

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Which one are you subscribed to?

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C2 star dax and fgbl - the lowest DD and one which doesn’t trade 10 times per day) I don’t know how he/she has managed to keep open/closed DD so low…lets hope it continues!

It will be very interesting to see if these strategies survive with the rigid drawdown rules. The way these strategies trade by scalping it will get harder and harder with more subs. Already we see a flatlining in the equity curve.

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So far I would say the C2Star certification program is an amazing subscription magnet. With only a few months history these strategies have all gathered quite a fair bit of subs.

But another thing odd is that they have mostly switched to trading the micro’s instead of the mini’s now even. Almost like a delay tactic in order to collect only monthly c2 fees with little intention to make money for the subs.

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C2star is great for lots of IRAs and small accounts. However, bigger accounts - the ones that are capped at 100% asset participation in C2star - will go to other algos. Basically, C2star has created an incentive to look good on paper without necessarily providing the biggest return to its subscribers.

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