Does anyone know if there are brokers on C2 that allow autotrading your own system at no cost? Thanks.
Alexander - I have long advocated that vendors who auto trade their own system on C2 should get big incentives to do that and that their real live trading results should be displayed on C2. So far it has fallen on deaf ears. BTW, I understand that Dean is auto trading his systems, more power to him, but I don’t think he has gotten any recognition for that so far. - Karl
No cost? What do you mean? You can autotrade your own system if you would like.
Karl, I think it’s a terrific idea. It definitely gives additional credibility to the vendor. Perhaps Matthew has a good reason why it hasn’t been implemented yet. Also, I’m curious why it’s possible to trade your system from Tradestation, but that it’s not one of the compatible brokers listed for autotrading.
Does someone have an answer to that? Opening new accounts is a bit of a nuisance (OptionsXpress asks you for your SSN # and all your medical records - well, almost :))
Some brokers charge a fee for autotrading (see a previous discussion of this). However, if we’re talking about a simulated account that would be a bit silly.
I would prefer to have a simulated account in Tradestation that does the autotrading of my system. The reason why I would prefer not to trade my account directly from TS is that initiating my equity on C2 at a round number like 100,00 makes it easier for the calculation of all metrics and comparisons to other systems. However, it does put the system at somewhat of a disadvantage as in C2 it’s a bit more difficult to be precise with the entry and exit points (since there are no real-time bid and ask prices). So in C2, versus my real account, there is more of an inclination to place all orders at the market - which is ok as I’m trading something very liquid and have a long enough holding period - but it’s not ideal.
C2 does in fact use real-time bid/ask spreads in its Hypothetical Fill Engine (HFE).
I use Options Xpress and they dont charge any additional fees for autotrading
Yes, I know and that’s great, but what I’m saying is that when you make a trade you just see the real-time ‘last’ price…whereas for options it’s also critical to see the bid and the ask as the spread can be larger than $0.01 and is proportionally much bigger than for an ETF or a stock. I read that you cannot display real-time prices for some reason - but you know, they are available for free on the internet, even for options. Having the bid ask information would be a big improvement for the options traders. When I trade in C2 I always look at the real-time prices in TS, but I am not always able to get the same kind of fills on limits as I get in TS, which is why I generally have to settle for market prices on C2.
Also, Matthew, you didn’t say anything about autotrading your own system. Will it be possible to do in TS, and if not, which account is the best/easiest to setup? I read that stock and option trading is free for autotrading, but then it says, “Each broker determines its own fees”. Am I right to assume that autotrating your own system happens in a simulated account and so there are no commissions?
Hi Alexander,
When I place trades I look at the real-time bid/ask quotes on my broker platform, then I enter the trade in C2. I do not use the C2 quotes for the reason you mention, since the ‘last traded’ can sometimes be quite different from the current bid/ask for options. This does mean a small delay, but that doesn’t matter with my trading style.
I autotrade via Gen3 in my live OptionsXpress account. For this there is no extra charge.
When I place a trade in C2 it appears in my OX account within a few seconds. OX will often fill a bit better than the quoted bid/ask (even with market orders) and this real trade price automatically gets reflected on my C2 system page.
I have no experience with TS or other brokers and autotrading methods so I’m afraid I cannot offer any comment on that front.
Dean.
"Will it be possible to do in TS, and if not, which account is the best/easiest to setup?"
I do not think there is a way to autotrade with TS thru C2 interface and show up in C2 stats. I know the opposite works: I trade in my TS acct, and then signals automatically go to C2, triggering positions in C2 account.
So, it is not the same thing as what you are looking for, even though you would be trading real money with the system (in your TS acct). Nobody looking at C2 would know this though.
Alex - one thing to remember with TS is that their application isnt free - and could easily cost you more than what an auto-broker would charge you depending on your needed add on’s. I use it in a manner that Kevin D does but since my C2 system here is a daily (Orion) i dont need to be fully automated. Just something to think about.
Dean, Kevin and Gary,
Many thanks for your input. From what I understand Kevin and Gary you guys don’t really autotrade your systems - you use your real money accounts in TS to generate your signals, which show up on C2 via the C2tray. While Dean, you use a simulated account in OptionsXpress to autotrade your system - which doesn’t involve commissions or any other fees. Which leads me to think that I’ll probably have to go along and setup an OX account.
I wonder if anyone has had experience autotrading their system through Interactive Brokers, MB Trading or Genesis Securities…
Alexander, just to clarify: I don’t use a simulated account in OX; it is a live account with real money and real trades. That is why the actual prices traded are reflected back to C2.
P.S. But the trade commissions and regulatory fees are not reflected in the C2 stats, as Matthew pointed out earlier. I pay no other fees to C2 or OX for autotrading.
"you guys don’t really autotrade your systems - you use your real money accounts in TS to generate your signals"
That is correct for me. Part of the reason for autotrading your own system is to “prove” that results are achievable. That is really important for scalping systems (Magic Moment was a good example why) and for systems that short stocks (read latest Stock Swing review for details).
I use TS as my primary broker. The $99 monthly platform fee is waived if you trade more than 10 round trips a month, which makes it a bargain.
Kevin
