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C2 Star Mathematically Impossible on the Long Term

Partial payment seems fair. After the first 60 days if the strategy is not meeting the performance requirements, is the re-up fee charged every 60 days or every 30 days?

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I think I am still a bit unclear if they have to be met for just the day of the billing cycle or a certain number of days to avoid the reup fee.

Just my opinion on the Star program.the ratio of drawdown to the amount you’d have to make is ridiculous, I can’t think of any business model in any realm where this ratio would be feasible. This is the equivalent to hitting a trifecta at the racetrack everyday. I’m sure C2 is not making that much from doing so but it’s kind of like a lottery ticket.
It’s unachievable for a prolonged period of time due to an atomically minuscule drawdown requirement. They say no gamesmanship but by simply making this an option with so many fees is basically a casino game in my opinion. Other than that I love this place.

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I love this place too.

Nothing is Impossible.

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You’re asked to pay a re-up fee if you’ve not achieved full C2Star certification after 60 days have elapsed. After the first 60 days, you do not need to pay that fee again until another sixty days elapsed without your even briefly achieving C2Star certification. In other words, if you achieve C2Star Certification, even for just a moment, the 60-day clock is reset, and you have another 60 days to achieve full certification.

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Thank you for the clarification. That does seem pretty reasonable.

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I have asked this in another thread but it seems more appropriate to ask in this one.

I am considering to apply to C2 Star certification and I have a few questions that I would like to clarify first:
1- What’s the minimum system age to be certified?
2- If my account has 30.000USD in stocks and 20.000USD in cash, for the closed trade metric, what is the value used, 30.000USD or 50.000USD?
a. If it is 50.000USD it means that if I close a stock position worth 500USD, I am closing 1%? Or because C2 considers 50% margin usage I am only closing 0,5%?
b. If my strategy is younger than 60 days I need to close positions with at least 2.500USD value? Or 5.000USD if considering 50% margin usage?
3- For the open loss metrics, this is for total account value (stock + cash) or by position?
a. If I have 30.000USD in stocks and 20.000USd in cash the denominator will be 30.000USD or 20.000USD?
b. Can I have loss in a position greater than 5% as long as the sum of my open positions do not represent more than 5% of my equity?
4- The maximum equity drawdown (5.000USD) it is valid only for each period of C2 Star certification? If I have lost the C2 Star certification today because of this criteria, and all the other parameters are alright, can I get certified again tomorrow?
5- Do we have any kind of Dashboard to follow how is our strategy doing regarding the C2 Star certification program?
6- How is the revenue calculated and paid?
a. If I lose the certification on day 20 of my certification do I receive 2/3 of the 1.000USD guaranteed?
b. What happens to the subscriptions fees? Will I receive 75% of subscriptions fee from day 1 to 20 and 50% from day 20 to 30?

I also asked this to support. When they reply I will post it here (if they give me permission).

This is the reply I received from support:
Q1- What’s the minimum system age to be certified?
Only new strategies can be entered.

Q2- If my account has 30.000USD in stocks and 20.000USD in cash, for the closed trade metric, what is the value used, 30.000USD or 50.000USD?
a. If it is 50.000USD it means that if I close a stock position worth 500USD, I am closing 1%? Or because C2 considers 50% margin usage I am only closing 0,5%?
It’s a % of total capital

b. If my strategy is younger than 60 days I need to close positions with at least 2.500USD value? Or 5.000USD if considering 50% margin usage?

$5000. We use the capital deployed https://collective2.com/c2star/minimum-capital-deployment

Q3- For the open loss metrics, this is for total account value (stock + cash) or by position?
a. If I have 30.000USD in stocks and 20.000USd in cash the denominator will be 30.000USD or 20.000USD?
It’s simply the total loss of all open positions against your total equity

Q4- The maximum equity drawdown (5.000USD) it is valid only for each period of C2 Star certification? If I have lost the C2 Star certification today because of this criteria, and all the other parameters are alright, can I get certified again tomorrow?
Once you violate one of the risk criteria you are out of the program and would need to apply again with a new strategy

Q5- Do we have any kind of Dashboard to follow how is our strategy doing regarding the C2 Star certification program?
Yes, if you click on the star next to your Strategy name it will display the current status of all your metrics

Q6- How is the revenue calculated and paid?
a. If I lose the certification on day 20 of my certification do I receive 2/3 of the 1.000USD guaranteed?
yes, you are paid for every minute you are certified, so you would get 2/3 for that 30 day period.

b. What happens to the subscriptions fees? Will I receive 75% of subscriptions fee from day 1 to 20 and 50% from day 20 to 30?
Yes, it becomes a regular strategy and will receive 50%.

If C2 would clearly write all the C2 Star rules, I think it would be easier for traders like me to try it out. But I don’t want to spend the 200USD and not getting the certification because I did not know all the rules. Or, even better, if for each strategy the owner could have an indicator if his/her strategy fulfills all the C2 Star criteria, maybe more traders would apply… Just an idea Mathew :slight_smile:

I don’t even know if there is criteria for strategy age, minimum or maximum…

Hopefully someone finds this helpful. This is my personal experience. I paid the initial starting fee of $199. Then each month I of course pay my fee to have a strategy just like any other strategy. At the end of the first 60 days I did not meet the requirements. So I had 48 hours to pay a re-apply fee to continue. The benefit is that now all my other requirements have been met where as deployment of capital and a few other non drawdown ones had not been met at a time when I actually did meet the return requirement.

Until today, which marks the first 60 days, two of the green stars were grey. I find it nice that they do give you a dashboard to keep track of everything.
image

Here are the messages from C2 showing what I had to do to continue. It looks like if in 31 days I have not met all the requirements for at least one day then I will have to pay again. However, if for even just one day I do meet the requirement then from what Matthew said it appears that it will then reset to 60 days before I could have to pay the re-apply fee.

An important detail that is not written anywhere is that you can only apply to C2 Star certification with new strategies.

Thus I decided to open 2 strategies that will reflect the live accounts I am managing for 2 family members with slightly different risk appetite, but for sure much less than what I have.

So, from now on I have 3 strategies here in C2, from higher risk to lower risk:

Save For Retirement - Tries to reflect my live account and my higher risk acceptance level. It doesn’t reflect 100% my account because in my live account I am adding money each month, and here you cannot add funds (Higher Risk)

S4R Value and Growth - Reflects my family member 1 live account, the one that has higher risk acceptance (Medium Risk)

Save For Retirement LR - Reflects my family member 2 live account, the one that has lower risk acceptance (Lower Risk)

If history repeats the outperformance part will not be a problem. What I am a bit concerned is about the closed trades capital deployment. Because I am investing for the medium to long term, only a small part of my positions are short term.

In 60 days I will let you know if I finally got the C2 Star certification for both systems.

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So paying the reup fee only resets you for 30 days while meeting the requirements for 1 day resets for 60 days??

That is my understanding from what it says.

I am looking for successful traders to work with me on a crypto hedge fund. Would you be interested in talking?

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Thank you so much for unveiling these hidden clauses. If it wasn’t for you, I would have figured it all out too late and the hard way.

The requirement “Must outperform SP500 index by 1%” makes no sense. Many good programs have zero or negative correlation to the SP500. That may be their feature or a selling point. Subscribers with a stock portfolio may want to hedge with a program of Forex, Bonds, or Commodities. Why disqualify or discourage programs from C2 Star by tying performance to a robotic “buy and hold” stock strategy?

Why??

Of course it makes sense.

Investors/traders do not come to C2 to pay monthly fees for systems that are no better than a buy and hold strategy, they want systems that can beat the market.

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I would like to see if I understand this fully and correctly.

You can only decide to attempt to become C2 Star Rated with a new strategy? So, for example, if the strategy is starting out with less than 40k it would not be eligible to apply for C2 Star after it reaches 40k some time in the future?

Thanks for the assistance,
mB

Every trade strategy leader should develop a strategy that plays to their strong suits. If that qualifies for star certification then great, but it should be an indirect goal. Your strategy should be designed to take care of your subs.

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Correct , just new strategies can apply .

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