Following Post deleted by Ross

Ross deleted the following post from his forum. Guess he doesn’t like to receive the same critique he so freely hand out to others.



(I thought vendors cannot delete posts anymore?)

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His Post:



Also learned about what a nasty beast the Russell is. I wanted to balance exposure of the 3 (of 4) different systems on this one advisory that signalled today (each kept separate by using a diff instrument). So I saw Russell, Nasdaq & S&P eminis with margins around upper $3000s and DJ with over $4800, and did 3, 3, and 2.



Well, the Russell had several times the dollar movement of the DJ and the NQ!!! It was like +$2800 for a long, +$1300 for a long, and ($950) for a short in open gains/losses. Some balance!!!



Tonight, we study recent movements for each of those and reconsider how to better balance these indexes among the 4 systems.





My reply:

So, after a year of “learning”, you launched your system and on the first day you realize that you do not have the faintest idea about the characteristics of the instruments you trade?



A clear sign of someone launching a system without ever traded real money with it, or traded much in general.

It talks. But as I don’t read his posts, I am not really concerned. Was only a matter of time before he appeared and urinated on the site. Have yet to read a single C. M. post that offered anything of thought or value.

Cris Guess he doesn’t like to receive the same critique he so freely hand out to others.

Shhhh… May I ask you to shut up? :wink: Finally we have few trades from market wizard and I expect more from the rising star. WTF you are scaring the fish? Do you want to destroy all the fun? In the case you’re really selfish person :frowning:



(I thought vendors cannot delete posts anymore?) there is some bug in C2 forum that allows that. Anyway using of the bug shows that the person very familiar with C2. :wink:



Ross

Don’t think about the miserable people. I believe in your knowledge and wisdom. Please continue your trades and disregard all the mindless envious persons.



Eu

"(I thought vendors cannot delete posts anymore?)



Me too. MK?

Thanks, Eu



I don’t mind taking criticism as well as giving it. If I am hard on someone, it is to try and spur them to avoid the pitfalls many others fall into.



But the C.M. person does nothing but whine, complain, & try to stir up emotions & hostility. That is why I said flat out, I will never read his posts again.



I asked him several times to demonstrate a single time over the last few months when he ever added value to a new person on the forum, or the oldies, but he was silent. A single post, offering training or pushing new vendors to better performance. I had about 10 of my own ready, but there was no response from C.M., because he has nothing to show. He slings mud (as I do), but at least I help to clean it up…



To this point, I have never seen a single person say anything positive about C.M.

I am not going to get involved with long arguements, but I think Chris raised an intersting and valuable point. It might not have much value for you, but it sure has value for potential subscribers.



But what is more telling to me is that the post like that got deleted.



Regards

- Fanus

But what is more telling to me is that the post like that got deleted.



I suppose, but it would help to know the history behind it. The Talking Head is the only thing that made me hesitate even having a forum. I knew that only a few hours would pass before it showed up. And sure enough, there it was, taking a leak…



As the text says (while creating posts) "Arguments are fine (even encouraged) - but they should be matters of substance."



With the Talking Head, there is never any substance (again, let the Talking Head demonstrate ANY substance from ANY of its posts in the last 3 months) It should follow on this post with excerpts from anything profound it said (although others will have to read it, since I have already given up on it’s posts).



Let Talking Head prove me wrong!!! I went back myself for several months, to try and understand the Talking Head. And there was nothing of value.



With Talking Head, you go around in circles, until you realize, it is like having a conversation with a barking dog in a petstore window. Most of the Talking Head’s logic centers around “O, yea?” and “well, mine is bigger than yours.” Then after a half dozen posts, you realize you don’t get anywhere, so why bother?



That is why I said before, I will never read any post from it.


Most of the Talking Head's logic centers around "O, yea?" and "well, mine is bigger than yours."

You mean, like you what you are doing when you constantly say, show me your posts are more valuable than mine?

Of course my posts have no value for you, because they expose you as someone who pretend to be a trader, but in reality can only read and write about trading. This is easier for you to delete my posts, or pretend to ignore them, because you have no answers for them.

You give advise to everyone and tell everyone how they should be trading, but on your very first day of launching your system, it becomes clear that you have never traded a day in your life.

You claim to have researched systems for 10 years and you spent a year here "learning" so that you can be ready to launch your system. On the first day, much to your surprise, you learned that the Russell's daily dollar range is more than the other 3 indices. Anyone who has been trading for real know that. In the very least, you should have noticed that during your backtesting, but since you didn't, it tells me one of two things:

1. You have no clue on how to do backtesting and researching systems and don't know how to analyze performance data. If you do, you would not have overlooked something this basic.
2. You didn't bother really backtesting your "system(s)".

You also preached about that the better systems are those that can be traded over multiple commodities. And what do you do? You launched 4 systems where each trades one instrument each. This is telling me that you have optimized each system over each index and the system doesn't even work when you apply it to another index.

So after all your "research", your "learning" and telling other people how to trade you finally launched a system. A system which:

1. You do not trade yourself and never even traded the instruments in your system.
2. Was not properly backtested, if at all.
3. Is most likely optimized for each market.
4. You charge almost $400.

Furthermore:
1. You will only allow people to subscribe outside of C2, meaning you are not willing to pay the fee's for C2 and want an (almost) free ride.
2. You delete posts which warn other people what you are doing.

This shows what kind of integerity you have.

Subscriber beware and don't be fooled by someone sounding smart. Look at the facts and contradicting statements.

Well, it talks again (sorry, gave up reading C.M. posts, as I said before, so don’t know what it says.)



I will give Talking Head credit. It perseveres. Never has so much been said by so few resulting in so little.



This also represents my last post chasing threads inhabited by Talking Head. Talking Head has wasted enough time.



Tip head to one side, Talking Head, and let hot sand run to other side…

For someone who doesn’t read my posts, you sure spend a lot of time posting to say that you don’t. And even without reading them, you know they have no value? Wow, you are good.



Your complete lack of willingness to address valid concerns and the same critique directed at you which you are so fond of handing out, should tell everyone what you are about.

I have not understood how is it possible to be on C2 and to subscribe out of C2. And I have not understood why. Nor I have seen how is it possible to delete posts. In practice, I have not understood all the stuff. Thank you for help.

"I have not understood how is it possible to be on C2 and to subscribe out of C2"



Yea, I’m a little surprised that MK allows systems that clearly state they don’t want you to subscribe via C2 and direct you to an external (non-C2) web site to subscribe to the system thereby cutting C2 out of the (profit) loop.

"You claim to have researched systems for 10 years and you spent a year here “learning” so that you can be ready to launch your system. On the first day, much to your surprise, you learned that the Russell’s daily dollar range is more than the other 3 indices. Anyone who has been trading for real know that. In the very least, you should have noticed that during your backtesting"



Chris, I had thoughts along the same lines when I read that post by Ross.



While I applaud that level of honesty, its a little scary that someone who is that unfamiliar with the basics of an index/futures contract would be getting ready to offer the system that trades it to the public. Tick size and average daily range for ER2 aren’t esoteric concepts.



Position sizing based solely on the margin requirements for each contract? Oh my.

Pete, I’m not delighted when vendors instruct people not to subscribe through C2. I don’t have a general policy about it (yet), but will deal with these instances on a case-by-case basis. My current thinking is that C2 needs to create the best software and service possible, and that’s the way you discourage people from trying to cut C2 out of the subscription processing end. That said, it strikes me as pretty unfair to use C2 as a marketing platform (and to benefit from all its marketing spending, software development, customer support, etc.) but to end-run C2’s revenue share. Those systems essentially are being free-riders. Again, I’ll wait and examine the issue longer before promulgating a general policy. It’s not a huge issue today, but I’ll use this post to gently discourage this practice.

Those systems essentially are being free-riders.



C2 charges about $98 for listing each individual system. Some vendors have a half dozen systems. 30% is kind of a steep rake on top of that. But this has been mentioned by others and not addressed. The credit charges to run one’s own system (such as Paypal) runs about 2-3%

"My current thinking is that C2 needs to create the best software and service possible, and that’s the way you discourage people from trying to cut C2 out of the subscription processing end"



Would be delighted use C2. But again, with an annual charge and 30% take, it is a daunting thing.



Timertrac & several others charge nothing for vendors; instead, the subscribers pay to join.

In addition, many system providers also tend to subscribe to other services, also paying towards the support of C2.

My only point is this: If C2 didn’t exist, and you had to find all your susbcribers yourself, and pay the marketing costs for doing so, and couldn’t attract people to your systems by participating in the C2 community, what percentage of your top line subscription revenue do you think you would wind up paying for marketing expenses to attract the same number of people?



Having been in this business for several years now, I feel qualified to answer: much more than 30%.



In the meantime, I’m going back to my hovel to continue building good software for the C2 community to use. Pay C2 if you want; don’t pay C2 if you don’t want to. It’s up to you. (Passive-aggressively yours, MK.)

Ross

Thanks, Eu

You’re welcome. I always prefer hard numbers to soft words :wink: And because you start providing the numbers I’m on your side from the point.



Chris Morse & Fanus Sevenster & Pete *

Gentlemen, I propose to leave emotions behind us and give a voice to the market and the market numbers. Ross might have a bad temper, but he might be right. Let’s give a chance to real jury, not our emotions :wink:



Eu

Ross



I am sorry, but I find it difficult to stay quiet and I cannot help but to see the irony in your replies when you call Chris’ replies without substance.



Again, I must say he raised interesting and valid points. Your way of responding by deleting his posts, calling him “it” and making other derogatory remarks, saying you are ignoring his posts, I, as a potential subscriber, find troubling and very unprofessional in the least.



The fact is you do come over as knowledgeable and is posting a lot on the forums, but the mistake you made with the Russell is a very beginner mistake. You cannot blame someone for thinking that something just doesn’t add up here.



Best Regards

- Fanus