The opinions expressed in these forums do not represent those of C2, and any discussion of profit/loss is not indicative of future performance or success. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading. You should therefore carefully consider whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your financial condition. You should read, understand, and consider the Risk Disclosure Statement that is provided by your broker before you consider trading. Most people who trade lose money.

Kinlay - Futures wealth Builder and Volatility ETF Trader


Has anyone gotten any message from this guy? He has two systems - i was subscribed to both and lost a LOT of money. And this guy is not even responding to simple messages like when is he going to close the current ES position ? What changes is he going to make to reduce to risk ? Is he going to start using stop losses now. Complete radio silence.


Even when he was doing well, he would never answer messages. He wants you to go to his website and call his secretary. If you subscribe to one of his hedge funds, he might consent to speak to you.


I was in Volatility ETF trader last year and got burned on the big drawdown in August. I cancelled that subscription when I realized the strategy was essentially just short the vol curve all the time and I switched to FWB. That went well until Monday. I’ve tried messaging him twice, but no response. He runs a hedge fund and I think he does C2 as a side business so I think his C2 clients are small fry for him. His fund performance seems good but unfortunately his C2 models’ performance hasn’t held up to the same standards. Look at Futures Wealth Builder - nine months of gains and then some wiped out in 4 or 5 days on a market correction (60%+ drawdown).


He never responds, and although he claims his systems are algos, any systems that draws down that much is obviously not very professionally programmed. The guy is only on c2 to advertise his hedge fund which probably blew up this week too.


i joined his HFT VIX algo scalp strategy for a month 1 yr ago. all he did was abuse the c2 bid/ask system on vix. he produced like 2000% in 6 months, but all the fill was not possible for my account. so every trade was a loss for me, buy at 0.10 and sell at 0.15. and the system would trade this way like 15 times a day.
Then later c2 closed 2 of his strategy because of that reason.

Is he still holding XIV or was holding XIV ?

I’m not so sure if i can trust someone who doesn’t response back. most of my strategy I subscribe to they response within 2-3 days.

I know he has a blog on Seeking alpha and promotes his 250k minimum hedge fund every couple weeks. At least his article is top notch, and his backtest look like he is the best money manager in the world. 60%+ annual return with 5% draw down. According to his brochures he runs a hedge fund in New York with his wife. But can you trust a hedge fund manager that’s not register with Finra/SEC ?


Yeah, I remember that strategy. It was a real scam and because of that i did not trust this guy for a very long time. But then when in subscribed, his trading seemed pretty good ( like he never martingaled, he did switch between going long and short of SVXY etc ). He never had stop loss set up, but he did seem pretty good trader.

But now, he still has open ES positions ( even though in reality just about every subscriber got margin called ) and he has no intention of closing that trade. It seems this draw down has removed his focus from C2 completely. Overall, i think he is a not a trustworthy guy ( he collected subscription fee from so many of us for so long and he can’t even be bothered to send an email ).

This is not a TOS system, so what does he care.


sorry to hear that. Most of my strategy is doing ok. few had a draw down, nothing major except for “Dont Worry” same thing, he opened 5 ES positions and got hit Monday. he then closed 2 at 200ma, (major support) He messaged me and told me that is a very high risk strategy, and i should diversify more. I told him maybe he shouldn’t name his strategy “Don’t worry” and maybe he shouldn’t quintuple down all at once, i would rather he martingale and just double down.


I have enough now of this guy. The odd thing is that shortly before the big down turn he sent out a message to his subscribers showing that one of the big gurus warned of a 10% correction but instead of getting out he kept all of his positions open. I eventually heeded the warning and got out, albeit late. He is here only to promote his hedge funds.


He’s a quant. My experience with those types of traders is they enter when their models say to enter, and exit when they say to exit, with rarely any use of stops or risk management on individual trades. He has a blog which is a good read and almost 2 decades of experience as a hedge fund manager. The risk adjusted returns for his fund strategies look really good. Unfortunately for us on C2, there seems to be a disconnect between his C2 performance and his fund strategy performance. Too bad. I was hoping that with all the knowledge and experience he has we could get something passably similar to accredited investor-grade performance here on C2.


looks like his quant was programmed by a 1st grader.