…have a tendency to weed out the wheat from the chaff.
Cheetah: Seems CheetahTrader lost its way. Can’t really say much since he/she is only charging $0. That’s probably why there are no real-life fills since 31-Jul-2007. But for a year-and-a-half old system to currently experience a 34% drawdown, the recent change since June 2007 to begin trading futures spreads has not bode well. Must be quite unnerving for the investors. Of course this is ALL made up with the 323 RF!?! Just another seemingly excellent “system” that must be removed from My Analyst page.
VN Forex: Despite all the mumbo-jumbo between the (great guy) vendor and subscribers - and all the talk about sticking to and refining the strategy…it seems failure is unfolding, nevertheless. New recent lows and OUCH a 29% drawdown - which is actually 50% of gains evaporated. Oddly things are now quiet in that camp.
SNIPER ¤ 4X: (i like the symbol) Getting tested now with 18% DD. Maybe my illumination will just prove wrong and this one will now fare wel: ).
Positive Forex: We’ve beaten on this one enuf into the ground.
woowy 2007/2: Has remarkably made it back for the few subscribers that stuck around…but I can’t see how anyone would allocate much to this system after having lost all or 150k in gains in just weeks! Woowy keeps trading it, though and indeed there are no real-life trades to speak of.
Normanfx: needs removal from My Analyst page since about as quickly as this system made it to $400,000 (nice equity curve to boot), it has landed back to mother earth and a reported 4,600% DD. Of course Norm is only charging $0 for his 4 trades - good realism though!
Eternal Return Trading - SwingNQ: Lastly (for today) this nearly one-year system is currently negotiating a somewhat large DD…
Just goes to show you things aren’t as they seem - especially with money and investing within short time-frames.
Meanwhile I still don’t have room to talk since I have yet to to make my “system” profitable, but I do believe I am still on track. Now if I can (in the next few months) get my usual 30-50% runup after each correction, I’ll have 10k in views and a perhaps a couple of happy subscribers ; ).
Gilbert aka Paysense
Seems another "good" system did in fact evolve to the downside (see previous post re: SNIPER ¤ 4X). DD is now more than 32%. In other words…for all intents and purposes this "system" has died.
Unlike some of the other systems previously showcased, this one has all the recent losses transacted in real-life subscriber accounts
Key thing to remember: Success during short period DOES NOT necessarily mean it will bode ANY fruit at all (unless you daytrade C2 systems…ok, month-trade).
Oddly the vast subscriber-base out of VN Forex have stayed a "quiet camp" - despite MUCH loss to hard-earned profit. (I hope, in the future, during my slightly underperforming periods I get the same deference.)
Compelling for a competitor such as myself is the fact that Forex is NOT the next "Holy Grail" as it appeared when I first looked at C2 systems.
Gilbert
Wow. Can you believe it? Last time I looked Cheetah had a 26% drawdown and based on its past successful equity curve, had likely turned things around.
Not the case. Cheetah pops up with a “failed” equity curve and now a 40% DD! Not sure what gives, but I’m sure someone will take time to “drill down” the specifics.
Seems some commodity futures contracts were traded in September for large losses to sharply affect a relatively long history of successful trades.
Wow. Gilbert
Hi Gilbert,
I’m new to C2 and can’t figure out where you find out how many “real-life subscriber accounts” a system has! Can you point me in the right direction?
Thanks, Murray Nickel
You can see this only for your own system(s). C2 does not release subscriber information for other people’s systems.
Hello Murray,
I am only citing “Crowd Opinion” or number of system views as seen at the right-hand column of each “system” page.
For instance VN Forex started 12/18/06 and has 18,552 views while Tango has 08/25/05 and 19,609 views. Si let on that he had ~200 subscribers (prob at peak). I can just extrapolate from these figures what are my expectations.
Of course not a perfect science since I have (mostly from (m)ad-campaign) generated about 1,200 views and have yet to get a C2 subscriber. Of course my “system” is only now projected to accumulate its stated “steep and furious” gains this, part of last and the next 2-4 months - to the tune of about 30-50 (positive) percent. Only then will viewers actually ‘buy into’ the hype 
Best regards to you and yours,
Gilbert aka Paysense
Thanks Matthew and Gilbert for clarifying.
OK This one popped up today: Forex Fighter GBP/USD KO
It was in My Analyst page…nice equity curve and stats!
Started 07/31/2006 or more than a year.
Forex…powerful systems I’ve seen since being at C2.
Steady track history currently struggling. From certain statements made in this forum, current market conditions aren’t that optimal for currency traders?
Anyways - 30% DD is currently acceptable for 100% compounded annual return.
I am a student as well as a professional money manager so these postings are not being hateful, but simply a log to see how the best C2 systems fare for periods over more than 1 year.
So I’ll keep an eye on the DD/recovery for this "Forex ‘System’ ". gA
Not to come off too much like a hater…here’s a good one to showcase:
Dave’s Goofiz ATM
Started 01/31/2005 or more than 2.5 years.
Viewed 17,555 times so likely a good subscriber-base.
Currently oscillating a bit wildly with the current market volatility, but DD contained.
Compound Annual: 129.3% over 999 days.
Max Drawdown: 36.01% (2007/02/22 to 2007/05/18)
Only not many trades in a given year.
OK…there u go! :()
Now TMG is popping up as under duress. . .
Started 10/27/2006 or almost 1 year.
Seemed to have found footing after DD from recent market correction (as it did in Feb-Mar '07). Yet pulled back and now has accelerated to the downside.
Currently is still beating the S&P - more than I can say at present. But my feeling on this one is, well crushing I’m sure for the subscribers. I mean this one had accumulated a 100% Realism Factor and 24,000+ views!
Granted the ~30% annual return has about halved, but the reported DD is still just ~12%.
Just happens to be A LOT of views for 1 year “system” that has moderate gains/drawdown. Disturbing is where it is headed now.
Seems I read up a bit on this one “The Merlin Trading Group” at its website that was impressive. I just don’t have the time to exhaustively revisit, but most can be determined from equity curves. For me, it was fine until now. Gilbert
In all fairness, let’s highlight a bottom that certainly has turned up: Bottoms up
I’ve seen this one often although not recently. Not sure why it wasn’t added to My Analyst page, but it will be now.
Started a bit more than a year ago: 08/24/2006.
Does not churn or over-trade and risks little with each position, yet recent selections seem to be taking flight!
Let’s see, Compound Annual%: 75.2% over 422 days with
Max Drawdown: 10.34% (20070226 to 20070315)
. . .and really only faltering with a ‘nil’ factor with recent malaise - go David Odle.
It simply does not compute that he’s only got 2000 views?!?
Should go up a bit from here, though;)
Gilbert
More “crack” analysis (lol) for the 'huddles masses" (whatever):
CTS SnapBack System continues to try and “snapback” from recent wranglings. Will keep an eye on this one as it has been around since 03/10/2005 and sports a decent equity curve. Annual percent return has, however dipped some.
Pannonia II was brought to my attention from a post on my thread at EliteTrader.com. Seems this guy is really tickled at his successes - that is until it showed some falter recently. I haven’t “drilled down” to specifically see how it jumped back up.
Reminds me of a recent play I made with AAPL’s earnings. As you know it and a handful of other stocks have been (up ‘til now) impervious to any resonable retracement. It’d been trading relatively flat (no frothy flashes) and of course earnings could be expected to blowout. I made a spread trade ahead of earnings that could risk a percent or two for perhaps a gain of a percent or two.
Almost like money in the bank. A typical vendor may have made a still (somewhat) reasonable play and risked 10-15% with the good chance of jumping equity by a quick and equal amount - thereby proving to the masses inherent trading prowess!
At least it would have left all those (frustrating) near-term stopped “losses” that seem to plague the risk-averse fund manager for a strong upward spike in equity curve. Problem is if per-chance the worst-case had indeed unfolded…well the “system” would, too then need to be folded;)
Patience and “living to fight another day” will always trump in the long-term - but yikes…does anyone know what it is like to have nearly locked in a months worth of premiums from covered calls - to simply have on the last (expiration) day a significant amount of ITM positions go OTM and then get stopped the next Monday only to spike back up to pre-Friday’s level in a matter of about an hour?
Frustrating indeed when I’d like to soon gain separation from that dern S&P 500 - and we will, not at the risk of hard-earned portfolio value!!
Defiant: So now let’s take a look at a name that jibes a bit with my personality. Vendor I’m sure is enjoying his recent vault into the strato - however went flat for a bit (a number of days!). Much to his/her further happiness is the fact that the uptrend has been once again recently resumed…
Six Sigma Trading continues to make volatile - yet still contained spike to both the upside and the downside. I’m sure he (?) is intent on making it to $400k by year-end at all costs.
Magnum (Prudent) Futures has been a disappointment, to me at least. Powerful gains made and retained time-and-again, all-the-while in keeping with higher highs and higher lows would - if continued - bode well for this vendor of many systems (Midas (V. Agg.) Hedge is very similar). However a recent breach to, following a spike from the lows has left this equity curve serious suspect. I’m pullin’ for you Pal…but haven’t even heard a recent ‘wrangle’ from that camp.
A bit of a bit to chomp on.
Gilbert
“Pannonia II was brought to my attention…that is until it showed some falter recently. I haven’t “drilled down” to specifically see how it jumped back up.”
That Friday trade was stupid, I let it run against me too much. Nevertheless I made probably the fastest recovery in C2’s history and in just 2 days, I am back where it was before that 90K loss, including a pretty good loss today…
ooops.g ; )
Not sure what is going on with ForexSuperInvestor.com since the system
"Counter-Intuitive Activity_Test" name leads one to believe there is no profit motive.
A brief read of the description may lead otherwise.
Is this considered a volcano? I guess.
Gilbert
[LINKSYSTEM_26557785]
I apologize if this is not appropriate for this forum. I guess it can be moved too; )O
Meanwhile Cheetah Trader has begun a new system:
[LINKSYSTEM_28307493]
Looks like VN Forex Club - while riding the trend for a while - is still placing bets in the same direction…much to his dismay.
Such is the case for a lot of "short-term" systems. Target an instrument and make a trend call, and buy-hold-hope and watch a great curve unfold. That is until reality hits!
Buy into these trending new systems and phase out with a profit and move on to the next before the blowup; )0 Just my HO.
Gilbert (still being patient)
Check out Pannonia now. New highs. The second recovery took like a week… 
Hi Pedro,
I’ve seen it and respectfully I couldn’t put very much confidence in that kind of trendline growth. I see a huge amount of risk and very short trade frame.
But during your run I would’ve taken a brief stab at it;)
Gilbert
[LINKSYSTEM_26557785]
Doesn’t it make you wonder how this can happen to a “good” system trader?
Nice name: [LINKSYSTEM_24349630]
Yet not started TOO long ago: 01/08/07
Started to get a decent following:
Viewed 3,560 times
Tracked by 95 My Analyst pages
With commentary: 4
Even made My Analyst page for a pretty good looking equity curve.
“99% Realism Factor” and a 300% return over a nine month period!
Unfortunately it has hit a snag and is currently in a 38% DD.
“For serious traders and hedge funds” yet some recent trades were cut at a 97k and 67k loss!! System description is some ‘light reading’. I won’t go on but if you BTO and STO just one instrument - in this case the E-MINI S&P 500 - and it moves against you, you HAVE to stick to a strict stop-loss target or methodology. Especially when you are sitting on a $400,000 C2 account and treat subscribers with business-like deference.
So, I’m guessing we’ll next see a huge bet made to (hopefully) bring the account value to new highs - but the curve is irreparably breached.
Gilbert aka Paysense
Gilbert,
You describe the equity curve as irrepairably breached becasue of the drawdown. In which case, how would you describe your equity curve? Why carry on?
