The opinions expressed in these forums do not represent those of C2, and any discussion of profit/loss is not indicative of future performance or success. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading. You should therefore carefully consider whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your financial condition. You should read, understand, and consider the Risk Disclosure Statement that is provided by your broker before you consider trading. Most people who trade lose money.

New model YM Turbo


#1

Another model that all subscribers must avoid before your capital blow out.

It is quite disturbing when I saw some investors always fall in the same mistake:

  1. Over Leverage.
    This model can use 40 contracts with small size capital. Do you know 1 point YM = $ 5 and YM can move 100-300 very very fast. If you use IB , has same capital and want the same result with developer, do you think you broker can allow you trade 40 contracts ? Your margin requirements is not enough. This is red flag.

  2. Transaction time in 1 minute.
    In theory, yes you can scalp in 1 minute but in practical, there is high discrepancy entry price between subscribers and the developer will receive.

  3. Lack of knowledge
    Before subscribe in any model, everyone should do their homework, please see the detail transactions. If it is to good to be true, may be this is not true. Make sure you understand characteristic for each trading vehicle.

  4. Short period
    How many very young age model blow out in C2? Once you get the answer, you will know what is the probability this model can survive for long period

  5. Non TOS
    I am not saying TOS strategy always make money, I only emphasize , over leverage and trade in 1 minute model are always hypothetical trades and can not be implement in real acct with the same result

For all his paying subscribers and Auto trade, good luck if you can survive and make consistent profit for long periods.


#2

Mathew, Please explain, i just cannot get through my head why this kind of system lawlessness is tolerated on C2. This just seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen. This is gaming the system, Its not right. All due respect but Wtf ever happened to the integrity C2? It once made me proud , albeit in the distant past? Its reminiscent of a bad dream. Im too scared to recommend C2 to anyone who hasnt been in the trading trenches for at least a few years so they dont get hoodwinked by some of these thugs.


#3

I think you have to realize that Matthew has no reason to respond to these posts which is why you will see him rarely chiming into these type of threads, or when he does, he usually responds tangentially.

Since you mention legal action, anything he says could be used against him if there ever was a subscriber lawsuit. What kind of reply do you think you will get here?


#4

I couldn’t agree more with this statement.


#5

I’ll second that. I used to tell people about C2. Hard to do that now as they allow systems like this (UVXY Trader, Diamond, Tail, US Bonds…) to exist.

Too much leverage, classic bid/ask spread scam, no system description, and no TOS. This has every making of a complete blow up. I wouldn’t give him a month.

Apparently though he has already made $400 in fees ($800 x 50%). So minus his initial $19 outlay he just made a nice $381 and can walk away. Easy money.


#6

I agree. The issue is C2’s reputation but at the same time the bulk of the revenue comes from new developers.

I think that C2 should change their model to allow a section for new developers and to keep the proven ones in another section. (whether it be TOS or non-TOS)

And in moving to the proven system section they should offer some kind of incentives so that the developers don’t suddenly go rogue.


#7

50 YM contract on 30k balance. that is EPIC!

im telling you guys is the same guy or the same group doing the same strategy over and over to get subscriber. They bet everything they got on $VIX option a call or put. after hitting the home run a few time they leverage 100x on futures or forex. Martingale until the blows up.

Rinse and repeat.

sound exactly like 10 other strategy out there.

In C2’s defense. the developer is a customer you know. He did pay to start the strategy and reset until they hit the home run VIX trade. are we expecting c2 to turn those “customers” away ?


#8

While this model is still open to public and we saw there is paying customer who uses 1 contract. My point for no 2 have already proven. There is discrepancy entry n exit price between a subscriber and the developer. While the developer makes profit, the subscribers is not making profit plus he or she is loosing money from brokerage fee.

Wish the best for subscribers. I need to enjoy my🍿now.


#9

Since C2 bases everything off IB, and as IB has 50% day trade margin on eminis (unlike virtually all other futures brokers who are MUCH lower), the 50 YM contract on a $30K balance is simply not allowed at IB. For many other futures contracts, IB’s day margin is the same as overnight margin! So how or why is C2 even showing these trades?


#10

Hey they are paying customers also. Aren’t we being too 1 sided on them?

I have portfolio margin with IB because of one of my strategy I subscribe require it. But to long 50 contract cost me $190k margin on $6million exposure. I don’t know what c2 or reg-t requirements are. So I have no idea why c2 allow 20x leverage on futures.


#11

If margin is excessive, then of course exposure is too. Speaking about futures margin only and that the vendor is taking on $190K worth of margin with 50 contracts (as you point out) with only a $30K account-simply impossible to do with IB. This is IB’s margin requirement, not anyone elses. Most futures brokers allow day trade margin as low as $500/contract on eminis-although anyone would be crazy to get remotely close, but YM Turbo would manage do that with another futures broker. IB Portfolio Margin doesn’t apply to futures, as IB says on their website:

Portfolio Margin is calculated for cash and equity products only; futures margin is always calculated and applied separately using the SPAN margin algorithm.

(IB website-How Do I upgrade to portfolio margin?)

The point of all this is that day trade futures positions that would be “safe” (from a day trade margin point of view) are at serious risk (or untradeable) on any number of futures systems on C2 with IB and their 50%-100% day trade margins and not at other futures brokers.


#12

Pete, you make valid points. I guess the most i can hope for is someone like AlgoSystems might make a great suggestion that catches Mathew’s eye and gets implemented. Anything to stop the blatant insanity. C2 has changed dramatically since i joined over a decade ago . Frankly, It just makes me sad to see the deterioration of C2 before my very eyes. Unfortunately, the deterioration has been at the expense of wide eyed Newbies. Not the best business model, imho.


#13

YM TURBO has both of the proven predictors of future collapse: high win % and low ratio of AV WIN to AV LOSS .

In addition, it appears to be mostly a scalping strategy.


#14

In the meantime, it is getting more subscribers and attention, because, money y’all. (Until it collapses and then people are, why didn’t you warn me)


#15

That’s why the poor deserve to be poor. In general, the poor are stupid.


#16

oh. thank you @InTheMoneyResearch for that in-depth research on poverty and the poor. the issue is much clearer now.


#17

Not every poor person is stupid, not every rich guy is smart. The world is full of opportunities and taking the wrong one can occasionally hurt people’s prosperity. But this, this is just a disaster in the making.