The opinions expressed in these forums do not represent those of C2, and any discussion of profit/loss is not indicative of future performance or success. There is a substantial risk of loss in trading. You should therefore carefully consider whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your financial condition. You should read, understand, and consider the Risk Disclosure Statement that is provided by your broker before you consider trading. Most people who trade lose money.

The Cash is the king?


It would have been nice to have systems that not only didn’t lose money during this drop but also to actually make money during this drop but it seems most systems are bullishly biased and volatile based systems.


Since the beginning of Collective2 and since the beginning of trading, many low risk systems have collapsed and many high risk systems have collapsed, nothing new. This is why some people come to Collective2, to find people who can do it better than they can. Many traders here who think they are good will meet humility in their future. This is life, life is a place to learn, Collective2 is a place to learn, for both traders and subscribers. If it is anyone’s concern that high risk systems will unfairly take what could be their subscribers, meditate, you need it badly. Meditation is an effort to empty the mind while watching thoughts pass by anyway. The less thoughts, the better the trader.


I thought the same thing. The system could have lost 90% ah. if he was in Xiv and it was going up or sideways with no trigger to get out.


My strategy did what you described. Winner at the end of every day during the period you speak of.



10k account leveraging 5 Dow contacts. This is insane. I know is not TOS, any wrong speculatiin draw down will be massive with 1200% leverage.


Thats good Osutai, You saw a red flag for 5 YM contracts in his 10K Acct. Please ask him what broker does he use. IB broker WILL NOT allow anyone to have 5 YM contracts in the same capital like Euphoria3k has. It is not 100% TOS anyway, do not bother.


Some low cost brokers are letting people daytrade YM with only 500 $ per each YM contract.
To name some; AMP; Cannon; Proemini; Apexfutures.

That is super risky practice; since it will lead to blow up. That is more than 250 : 1 leverage.


Just want to let everyone know. Most Autotrade in here is using IB and last week, IB increased margin requirement into the same level non US market requirements. Now everyone can realize what is the big issue.


Amp Futures. $500 margin day and night.


No, AMP futures is NOT $500 margin during the night. Please double check that before you get a margin call for your subscribers…lol


This is bad that the trade leader does not even know the margin requirements for the products that they trade!


As you wish. Then maybe you should check your source. I trade with Amp. I know what I’m charged. I will not continue a senseless conversation with you concerning this matter. Have a great life.



Holy crap! This trade leader is so stubborn that he doesn’t even bother to admit he made a mistake. Avoid this guranteed failure of a strategy!


It can happen with demo-only-traders. :slight_smile:
Anyway, looks like he is the guy who did some show maybe half a year or almost a year ago promising some YM magic. Miserably failed twice at that time.


Lol…I missed all that fun?


I was wondering the same, if this YMMagic had another strategy before that had failed? Asked too many questions to him through DM but no answer.


The way AMP Futures works is this. It is NOT $500 for night margin. That being said, AMP considers night margin from 5pm New York to 6pm New York. If you want to hold for that one hour, you need the overnight margin. If you are out by 5:00 and jump back in at 6:00, AMP considers that day margin. So you can use day margin with AMP anytime futures trade. You just can’t hold for that one hour. You have to be out by 5 minutes to 5:00 if you do not have enough to hold for that one hour. So night margin for AMP is really from 4:55 to 6:00. For ES with AMP the minimum day margin is $400. The night margin for ES is $5800 for that one hour.

Interactive Brokers went to night margin anytime. With IB you need $8078.25 for 1 ES contract. That’s their initial margin. Then they have maintenance margin. This amount with IB is $6462.60. What this means is you need a minimum of $8078.25 to get in 1 ES contract. If you’re in the trade, your account can’t fall below the $6462.60 or they will force liquidate you.

CME which is the actual exchange has a margin requirement of $5800. Brokers are allowed to ask for more to protect their business. In this case, IB does ask for more than the exchange and they have a right to do so.

All that being said, I hope nobody would even consider trading YM with only $500 or ES with $400 unless you like to donate to the market.

Good day


Thank you Payoff Matrix to clarify those requirements. I am really amaze for trader or developer has no idea about this basic information and does not care investor money. People must absolutely avoid this kind of strategy. Good luck YMMAGIC, you are the best.


There is actually a sentiment guy that I have followed for a long time now who started talking about the overleveraging in the VIX well over a year ago. Over the past year he has spoke about it more often, but yes Robert you are correct about people’s skepticism of C2 strats. I mean if a strategy is always long you have to wonder how it would perform when we are not in a trend. Most of the strats that I was watching that looked phenomenal are now dead, except for yours. Kudos there, your stuff looks solid.