@QuantitativeModels How can you be managing money for people without knowing basic concepts of investing? I am sure the predictions of a future crash are spot on. This will not end well for the subscribers…
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Hello,
Thank you for your comments, my name is Daniel and I’m working with Avi.
I’m the one who writes on this forum and engage with people and not Avi.
It was important for me to clarify that Avi doesn’t spend his time here he trades; Avi is a professional trader with more than 35 years of experience.
Thank you for your comments and feedback.
The only thing I’ll say to make things clear is regarding the question of correlation.
The problem that I had with it was that it didn’t change for 6 months and stayed the same number ( we take screenshots every month, even though we continue to grow the portfolio ) So I wanted to understand how they calculate (C2) and if they do something different.
and @JamesThornton2 if you do your “due diligence” please see that I wrote "says how my portfolio performed compared to the S&P ( Based on what your representative said ).
So, I’m sorry if I don’t “understand” but probably I received the wrong clarification about what this parameter is and that’s what I didn’t understand.
Also, I’ll avoid replying on future comments or “claims” we will focus on trading only.
Thank you and Merry Christmas
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On Dec. 21, I noted that Avi Butz’s strategy had underperformed the SP500 since it got its first autotrader in September.
I just looked at its returns since Dec 21, and it has again underperformed the SP500 over the last few weeks.
Since the strategy got its first autotrader in September, its total return was just 1.5%.
A fee of $595 a month is a lot to pay for consistently underperforming the SP500.
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Live Forex Signals,
You ask where I got the numbers. I presented in the very first post in this thread his strategy balances over time:
From March 2020 when it started through the afternoon on Sept 15 when it did its first autotrade, Avi Butz’s Strategies gained 187%. From that time until the early afternoon on Dec 21, it has underperformed the SP500, returning only 0.86% total over those 3 months. The value of the strategy was $145,271 at 2:47pm on Sept 15, and it is $146,518 as I write this on Dec. 21.
These are in the line chart on his main page. I then updated my numbers to today, showing the same pattern since Dec 21 as I documented from Sept 15 to Dec 21.
You seem to be trying to push back, but as the earlier posts make clear, the most important period is the one AFTER autotrading begins on Sept. 15, 2020. Your analysis includes the first 15 days of September BEFORE autotrading started.
Why? Because you really, really, really want the strategy to work and you refuse to consider the evidence?
If you thought you were right when you first started disagreeing with my analysis, then by now I think a fair minded person would have to admit that so far it looks like I was right. He continues to underperform the SP500. If you were right back in December, he should have gone back to earning huge returns over the last 3 weeks. He hasn’t.
Maybe he will, but your view now is simply an act of faith; it is not based on any evidence.
I genuinely hope that he goes back to making a lot of money for his 13 autotrading accounts (as of Jan. 6). After all, his subs are/were paying him $595 a month.
I want the C2 community to prosper, which is difficult to achieve if subscribers don’t do well. I also hope you are right, but I have no reason to believe that you are.
Last, take a look at his chart and try to guess when autotrading started. (Hint: It’s right at the little peak in mid-September). Since then, he’s up only 1.5%.
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Hi My friend,
I just took a look on the strategy.
I do think the result maybe randomly. After big winning and when having autotraders, the vendor became much more conservative.
However, the strategy well matched the ranking rule of C2, such as lower leverage, lower DD, higher profit factor, higher return… thus it has a pretty good ranking, but… some subscribers maybe a little disappointed.
I 100% believe you don’t want anything… 
You are the most kindly person in the forum without any personal bias… 
Thanks my friend,
All the best in 2021!
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I didn’t forget this. I noted exactly this point earlier in the thread:
In the long run, virtually every strategy underperforms the SP500 for non-trivial amounts of time, so that’s to be expected.
The problem is not that he has underperformed the market for a period, but rather that he got great returns until he had subs, and then he stalled out within hours of getting his first autotrader. This general pattern occurs at C2 with at least a half dozen strategies a year (and it’s happened to me).
So there is a fairly good reason to think that Avi Butz’s strategy at C2 might not work at all with actual investors.
If you want to believe it’s just a massive coincidence, go ahead.
Yet if the strategy never yields big gains for actual investors (as it did in simulated trading before it got subs), at what point in the future would you finally be willing to admit that what appears to be a serious problem for a $595 strategy is indeed a serious problem–another month, another 3 months, another 6 months? In other words, how long would the mediocre returns have to continue before you reconsider your sanguine opinion?
Please scroll up to read my first two posts on this thread. See if what Avi wrote is what you experienced. This is a regulation issue that kicks in at that point, not strategy leaders trying to game subscribers. At least not in many cases including Avi’s and likely yours.
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Wonder if this strategy simply gave up. No trades in 10 days…
Honestly I don’t know of any strategy that justifies a $595 a month fee.
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Have a look at these strategies if you want profitable (but affordable) plays.
Many of the below rank in the top 5% of strategies on C2, and can be combined to create an excellent overall portfolio.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
European Stock Basket- EUROPEAN STOCK BASKET
Nikkei Buy and Flat- NIKKEI BUY AND FLAT
Equity Basket Buy Sell- EQUITY BASKET BUY SELL
SP500 Trader- SP500 TRADER
Cambridge Futures: CAMBRIDGE FUTURES
Global Stock Basket- GLOBAL STOCK BASKET
Lrcfx and Equity Basket- LRCFX AND EQUITY BASKET
TPC Ftse tracker x 3- TPC FTSE TRACKER X 3
MOST OF THESE STRATEGIES HAVE RETURNED OVER 50% PER ANNUM, AND SOME 100%. MOST IMPORTANTLY OF ALL- THE DRAWDOWNS ARE ALL VERY MANAGEABLE.
Not a single strategy was around before the covid meltdown.
Greg, I would suggest judging these strategies on when The Portfolio Platform were formed. The company was formed after the start of Covid, to benefit the every day investor. We have a company in the UK who showcases what we think are some of the best strategies around www.theportfolioplatform.com Most of these strategies are also available on the C2 portal, and are some of the most popular.
We also have a company that is a Consultancy that designs strategies for asset managers and hedge funds in the UK www.theportfolioconsultancy.co.uk
The 2 partners behind this both have 20 years experience each in the markets. One (me) having an Asset Manager for 8 of these years, and my partner being a partner in a large UK hedge fund for 20 years.
I hope that provides a little more depth.
So you’re correct, none of those strategies were showcased on C2 before Covid, as we weren’t in this space.
Greg, I’m not one to give advice, but if someone else draws attention to a good strategy in the future (all of the above are good), maybe rather than look for negatives, perhaps look for the positives. Just a thought.
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The strategy is now private. What happened?
Strategy probably bombed and now the trader wants to hide the results. Anyways, a $595 monthly fee is absolutely ridiculous.
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It did not bomb. A private C2 strategy is not necessarily a losing strategy.
https://collective2.com/profile/112048889
It did not bomb. Private strategies can still be viewed though using an html editor. Just replace the number 112048889 with the number in the url of whatever strategy you want to view. It won’t show you everything but gives you a pretty good graph.
<p>https://collective2.com/details/128081688</p>
<p><a href="http://collective2.com/details/128081688"><img src="http://collective2.com/performance/128081688?width=900&height=600" /></a></p>
Then view the html visually and take a screenshot.
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Well I guess I was wrong. Cool that you can still see the visual graph for private strategies. Seems like the strategy suffered a large drawdown in April-May, but eventually recovered to new highs. Wonder how many people are subscribed to it.
You can make it without digging in html. Just replace details with performance in the link.
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Great point! I definitely was overcomplicating it.
In reality I bet you are right in a way. Some strategies don’t do well once actual money is auto trading. If I remember correctly much of the fantastic history of that strategy was when there were zero auto traders.Then it went flat when there were auto traders. I couldn’t say whether there were auto traders during that dip but I bet there weren’t during the recovery.
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