Who's making ANYTHING with C2?

Plain and simple question? Who’s making REAL money using anything on C2? I have tried some Forex systems off “The Best” list, Hot Hands, and some of my own picks…they all lose $$ big time. What works for anyone here? This site has been around for a while so I assume SOMETHING has to work. Beats the heck out of me what it could be…

Plain and simple answer: I lost money as a subscriber (see http://scitra.blogspot.com where this has all been documented), but started to make money trading my own system, both from the profits in my own account as well as C2 subscriber revenues.

ST

I will surely ditto this post. If you really want to learn to trade put out a signal. The $98 for six months is the best education money can buy.



Other than that my subscribers are making very good money. At least the ones that are doing exactly what I am doing.



Rick Haines





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Totally agree. $98 well spent.



Not only I am learning a lot on my own in an accountable manner, but I’m having fun, making money, and most importantly - controlling my risk!



There are many systems in C2 that can make money, but it’s hard to know what will happen in the inevitable bad trade. How much money will the system lose then? The risk management part of it is what many Vendors don’t know or care, and so I like having under my control since it is my money to lose.



This concern would be alleviated if C2 offered (as some have recently) a daily /or system /or account stop loss feature.

Where do I start? Perhaps I’ll just leave it at you traded forex.

After about 6 months, I am just below (about $500) breakeven including all commisions and fees, having been over 10k down at one point, and about 3k up at one point, with an account about 30k (more available to service margin calls when needed, but none so far).



I find that many systems I join instantly result in several k loss, and quite often the historically largest drawdown for the system in question.



Generally my total balance climbs slowly, and then gets whacked for 5k+ in just a couple of bad days. This is with trading very disciplined systems, so it must be truly scary being a victim, er, sorry, subscriber, to one of the more seat-of-the-pants type systems.



Most of my profit has come from just one system that has had a very good streak - other systems I joined, that were previously very profitable, started downhill when I joined, and got cut from trading once they hit a stop-loss; they have since generally performed much worse than historically, and/or not even recovered to the stop-loss level, or break-even level.



On the hopeful side, the market has been an absolute bitch the last few months, so I’m grateful to have stayed somewhat afloat.

I find that many systems I join instantly result in several k loss, and quite often the historically largest drawdown for the system in question.



other systems I joined, that were previously very profitable, started downhill when I joined, and got cut from trading once they hit a stop-loss; they have since generally performed much worse than historically, and/or not even recovered to the stop-loss level, or break-even level.



this is what I keep telling people, Almost all systems on top are there only because they are lucky. C2 actively tracks some 500 systems at a time. By probability, 10 are in the top 2%. People flock to these systems, even though they are only lucky. Once observed, they almost all randomize.



"it stopped working when I joined" is said often at C2 and usually means it NEVER worked. It was lucky.



When people grasp this, they may have a much better chance of success.

Perhaps you could give an example, Index.

How do you rate, say, Have Fun?

They are all "lucky" except for the ones that Ross personally blesses.

Well, I’m not Index, but do have an opinion on Have Fun and Have Fun Intraday, which I subscribed to for a while only to find then no better than a coin toss.



In fact, after a long series of emails with the system creator, I’m convinced that the guy is just an uncommitted surfer who, once a day at most (with his HFI system), sits down at his computer and trades for a few minutes just to justify the commissions he charges. Of course the results are reflecting the level of interest he has in creating profits for his subs.



I was so upset by his take-it-easy attitude that I decided to toss the coin myself instead of paying him to do it for me. At least now I have more fun when I gamble with my money.

Before you exhibited more understanding. You are falling to Gilbert’s level of understanding.



If you find a logical flaw, than say so. But arguing for argument’s sake is amateurish.



Feel free to attack my analysis of Cari’s systems. You can start with my previous post listing 2-3 critical flaws in each system.



Unless things like max DDs of 0.6 do not bother you…

When a system’s equity is at the same place it was last March, I think it is self-evident what the problem is. I was surprised when it was chosen for a best system on C2 type interview (in the email, I believe).

Forex would be my LAST choice for a trading system. I doubt any small trader can be seriously profitable, with good statistics in the long run. In the short run, they may hoop and holler that they found the Holy Grail, but in all likelihood, they will be miserable again in a few months…



Forex systems are among the most implosive on C2.

On the hopeful side, the market has been an absolute bitch the last few months, so I’m grateful to have stayed somewhat afloat.

Jack, it’s good result nowadays. I don’t speak about forex it was always melt down pot for idiots. Current swings are so impressive that you’re going to sleep with few mmm… th K profit and you wake up with with th K loss. Unbelievable. I know, know. best RIP of a trader “I’ve never seen it”. I don’t think that there is a place for public at the market at the moment. It’s not C2’s fault. :wink:

Eu

P.S. Yeah… Yeah… People swing millions in current market.

. . .Gilbert’s level of understanding. “



”. . .is amateurish."



Ross: Until you actually manage your own system - YOUR WORDS HOLD NO WEIGH! Yup, NONE whatsoever;)



Regards,



Gilbert



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With a rating of 71 and long records of false claims, you have the nerve to say you MANAGE systems?



The only thing you MANAGE, is to constantly say stupid things.



Now about some of your claims:



President of an institute - for the 5th time, could you please furnish the number of the institute, so i can call and confirm it is more than just your cell phone?



CHIEF trader - I would also like the contact number of your staff. I would like to know how many traders you manage, to create the constant level of buffoonery that originates from your work.



And, what about your ludicrous claims on Elitetrader - where many people said how stupid you were, where you claimed to make OVER 50% for 7+ years, for your subscribers, but then when you have to prove it on C2, you fall flat on your face? Several times? What, your system only works when it is NOT tracked???



Are you going to answer this time, or again go silent, because you cannot stand the truth???

I only read his comments for entertainment.

Ross - I’m thinking you might have a bit of arythmia after looking at Index.[LINKSYSTEM_15923627]

system is only used as a testbed for trading ideas. #subs set to 0 for a very long time, so no one can subscribe. May do a system for people some day, but that would be my prerogative. There certainly is a huge gap currently among C2 systems.



As opposed to Gilbert, who pleads, wheedles and begs for victims. He has everything but the knowledge about how to actually make money.

I folded AAT-Futures and AAT-FX last week.



I agree that having those two systems was the BEST EDUCATION I have received. I was doing fine, and probably still would be doing fine, except once I actually had SUBSRIBERS the STRESS quotient went up considerably. I stopped having fun trying things out. It is stressful enough managing my own trades (I average about $500 per week with emini index futures and about $100 per week on FX). Now I had someone else’s money to worry about!



I was wondering how so many guys had multiple systems, with some dead ones. Now I know. These things take time, and eat at you.



With the futures system, another problem crept up, I am basically an arbitrage trader, like QT Quickfire’s system ($1500 per month but not tradable on C2 because of slippage). The latency killed my entries and exits. I can do this all day long on my IB account, but going for 10 YM points on a 8 second trade doesn’t work with C2!



And the FX system was doing great then we had the FED. I hate the Fed!!! I failed to place my stop, and that was my problem. Even with just a few mini lots.



I may try again as a subscriber in the future with FX on C2. Still looking for someone who is not afraid to place stops and have reasonable drawdown. The FX market is just RIPE for someone who can really do it right on C2. We could ALL join them without a hitch because of the gazillion dollars in that market each day. We would all be rich.



I wanted to be that person, but I couldn’t follow my own rules.



So NO, I am not making anything on C2 yet, but I am still looking for someone willing to take my money and actually multiply it a few times in FX. (not ready to turn my futures account over yet.)



Steve Theobald

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