Hi guys,
I am thinking of opening up an account to auto-trade a futures strat here at collective2. I see that only Open-E-Cry and OptionsXpress accounts are available as Gen2/3 autotrading brokers for futures strategies.
Does anyone here on C2 have any feedback regarding their autotrading accounts with either of these brokers? I would love to know if anyone has had any problems with fills, missed trades, etc. with either of these brokers, and I would love to hear if anyone can recommend either one as a better choice than the other.
Thanks in advance.
I believe that the OEC autotrading interface has been tested longer, but the OX one is probably mature enough by now. I autotrade with OEC and it has been very reliable. I can’t compare with OX, though. And I don’t trade split-second scalping systems either. You can try the OEC demo and send orders to yourself to see how long it takes, etc. I did that a few times.
No problems with OEC. OptionsXpress is too expensive for me ($6.99/contract), so I have not gone that route. The OEC rate is much better at $2.44/contract, but then C2 (aka Trade Integration) adds $1.99/contract to make it $4.43/contract. Other than the price, I am happy with OEC and C2. I have seen 0.75 slip on NQ, but the fill is typically 20-30secs. We should pressure Matt to drop the Trade Integration fee to a more reasonable level ($0.50) for OEC, because they are very competitive with their rates (4 cents over IB and they’ll match IB if you ask) and drop it another 0.30 if you have a $100K account. It’s a shame that Trade Integration has to nearly double the commission costs for us poor Gen3 autotraders.
Welcome back, Braden.
Hi Beau. Thanks for the welcome!
And thank you guys for all the feedback. Sounds like Open-E-Cry is a good first place to look into for autotrading futures. I’ll check into it.
Again, thanks for all the feedback.
Braden:
I had the same question. Thanks for asking it.
James: Thanks for your detailed response.
Matthew said recently that C2 would ‘soon’ be offering another GEN3 auto-trading broker, but it’s not clear how soon ‘soon’ might be.
I had bad experience with OptionsXpress, both with stock and futures systems and very good experience with OEC. However, the systems I use at OEC are not rapid fire or very frequently traded systems.
I wonder if anybody is trading the systems ES Logic or Precision Futures at OEC. I tested these two systems for half a day with TradeBullet/IB with terrible results, that is they did not come close to the hypothetical results posted by C2.
I am not trading ES Logic, but I am trading a rapid fill system using OEC.
I am seeing about a 10sec delay from times posted in the ITM window on C2. The price fills are more time dependent then anything. BTW - if you test using an OEC Demo account, the fills will be horrible (3 min delayed), so don’t bother.
Jim
Karl,
What do you think of Gold Survivor Eurex Brk?
(Sorry to get off-topic.)
Thanks Jim, I am still hopeing that some people who trade ES Logic or Precision Futures will come forward and report about their experience either here or on their Analyst page.
Well, you certainly can not argue with success but you should also keep in mind that systems with super sized returns sooner or later have large drawdowns. Just look at their Super DAX system, up until mid October it actually was ahead of Gold Survivor Eurex Brk but now is in a 40% drawdown. As always, the more return you want, the more risk you have to take.
Appreciated, thanks.
"…up until mid October it actually was ahead of Gold Survivor Eurex Brk but now is in a 40% drawdown."
The vast majority of system are dependent, from a large part to a significant part, of the environment. So it’s crucial that the author of a system (automated or manual), can find ways to identify the conditions in which, he design his system to perform (uptrend, downtrend, sideway, volatil, VIX level, …). When those conditions aren’t there he must pull the plug and wait.
From the end of september the environment change a lot. So when the auto-trading or manually trading system conditions are not more there, you have to pull the plug and wait, because went your system is not built/test for this new environment you are like a blind driver.
Johnny Cash, Starways, (ES Future A 8.2.4 / ES Future B 5.4.1 / ES Future C 7.2.6 / ES Future D 5.5.3 / ES Future E 6.3.2 / ES Future F 7.1.2 / ES Future G 8.1.3)
Very nice start of your systems, I wish you success.
Question: Why so many systems? Maybe I am wrong but they don’t look like non-correlated systems to build a diversified portfolio. Or are you just testing different systems to see which one will perform best?
They are built with different combination of tech ind. from the same pool. Some have one, two or three tech ind. Some will have a smoother increasing equity curve, and others will have a more choppy curve.
You’re right those systems shouldn’t be in the same portfolio.
Hi, Karl:
I traded ES Logic for a while and stopped it. ES Logic could change limited order signal every few seconds, and C2/TB/IB is not capable handling that since there is around 6 seconds delay between C2/TB.
Very often ES Logic changes the limited order price, but TB/IB has filled based on the old price already. TB has to go back and reverse the order, huge slippage on commission and bid/ask spread.
I subscribe and autotrade Precision Futures since Feb 20 using IB/TB.
I calculated my Precision Futures live trades totaling 216 contracts (ES, YM ,TF, YG, NQ, ZN, QM, ZC) over the last 12 days.
My total slippage over C2 record is $419, average $1.94 per contract.
Since Precision Futures trade very liquid markets and use market order only, it is not surprised to see such small slippage.
Average commission per contract paid to IB is $2.17.
After subscription fee and commission, net $2173.51 over 12 days, average $181 a day.
Precision Futures vendor is very carefully managing his trades, and he is trading a very diversified markets.
Hope this help.
Hengfu
Hi Hengfu,
You don’t know how much I appreciate your post. I will also point others who have contacted me regarding this, based on my comments in My Analyst page, to your post. So I come to the conclusion that ES Logic is not tradeable either at IB or OEC but Precision Futures apparently can work.
If you don’t mind one more question: Since you are using TradeBullet with IB, under Tools, Options, Collective2 have you checked “No Fill Management” and “Synchronize positions with C2”?
I did that and still got duplicate orders and wrong or no fills as at least one other user did who contacted me. Since I tried it only for half a day it might have been just one of those unlucky days where C2 had connectivity problems with TB as, I am sure you know, happens from time to time.
Thanks again,
Karl
Hi, Karl:
Glad to help. I am also fairly new to TB, as I only use it only for 3 weeks. I check "No Fill management".
I do not use "Synchronize positions with C2 using market orders".
I prefer to trade systems using market order on liquid markets.
With above, what I found over the last 100 trades using 3 systems is C2/TB/IB is fairly reliable even my DSL connection occasionally goes down. I missed one round-trip trade, and TB somehow forgot to close one trade. Just have to double check after market close everyday to sync positions if necessary. Over a large sample size, I think the difference should not be an issue.
Regards,
Hengfu
"Gold Survivor Eurex Brk" is one of a huge stable of overpriced systems that likely sign up people on random equity increases. I see nothing of value from it or the other "Gold" products. The underlying stats do not make any of the Gold products worth much - they are quite anemic and I think you will be disappointed trying them.
Index -
I’m curious about your comments about this system. If this system was not part of a larger stable of systems, would you like it then? What specifically don’t you like about this particular system? I’m not trying to put you on the spot, but rather have some meaningful discussions about what’s good/ what’s bad, and what you look for.
Kevin
