Hi everyone.
I build trading systems and I trade my own money. I am thinking of selling one or a few of my systems here. The purpose of this post is to ask you what sort of system you would buy.
Do you prefer trend trading systems or day trading systems? Or something in between that stays in the market for about one week?
Do you prefer a system that trades just one instrument, say just light crude oil or lots of different things?
Or do you just look for something that is profitable and backtested?
How much would you pay for a trading system?
Do you wait for a system to have some history before buying it? How long?
The systems that you have bought, how much do they win/lose?
What’s the most important thing to you?
As you might guess, my approach is to find out what you, the customer, want and then make it work. I backtest all of my systems with as much data as I can, the minimum is 10years.
Cheers!
I build trading systems and I trade my own money. I am thinking of selling one or a few of my systems here. The purpose of this post is to ask you what sort of system you would buy.
One that works. So far, less than 1% do. Most vendors have no edge, little grasp about the centrality of good statistics, poor money management, no clue about the concept that others have to follow their system, etc. etc,.
Do you prefer trend trading systems or day trading systems? Or something in between that stays in the market for about one week?
Have never seen a single scalping system that can be traded here. Most people here are futures, forex or stocks. The longer you hold, the lower the trading costs.
Do you prefer a system that trades just one instrument, say just light crude oil or lots of different things?
Use a diff system for each instrument type. Futures, forex, or stocks. Mixing things like futures is more diversified.
Or do you just look for something that is profitable and backtested?
Backtesting is trash to me. It needs to be seriously forward tested. And then, it means nothing unless you undergo a lot of traders here.
How much would you pay for a trading system?
If it does not work, nothing. 99-99.9% do not work.
Do you wait for a system to have some history before buying it? How long?
idiots trade systems with little history. But some vendors are here 4 days, and are already advertising their system.
The systems that you have bought, how much do they win/lose?
Here, 99-99.9% lose. People seem to be much better at losing.
What’s the most important thing to you?
A system that works.
As you might guess, my approach is to find out what you, the customer, want and then make it work. I backtest all of my systems with as much data as I can, the minimum is 10years.
Backtesting is trash. Put it under the lights, with a serious history. Otherwise, you are just add to the “collective” noise…
Cheers!
Can you do better than the system below?
Index,
In your opinion, for "serious history", what is the minumum amount of C2 history needed (in days)?
Index, If you’re such a hot trader, why don’t you launch a system that actually performs? I have asked you this question about 10 times over the last 2 years or so (not under this username) but yet nothing.
Any trader who has been in the game more than a minute can splurt the platitudes:-
Made up from the top of my head :
@ If you really want to move your performance into the top 5% then you’ll use good money management techniques;
@ an edge is the ‘holy grail’ when the NPV exceeds the performance of the nearest equivalent asset by at least the current prevailing base rate.
@ Statistics are at the core of trading. Test test test! You must run monte carlo sims in order to determine whether your edge is a mirage created by your bias or whether it is a true edge “holy grail”.
@ A minimum R of 2 is essential for long term survivial. Don’t second guess your edge! Play the normal distribution.
Seriously, platitiudes don’t mean the contents of my bowels. Visit any financial forum and you’ll find them.
Good systems out-weigh the bad by such a high degree because any trader with a true edge ain’t going to post it to C2 but trade it themselves (if they don’t have the money to trade it then maybe they need to go out to work and stop fantasizing!) and the one’s that allow a successful system to run on C2 is due to the opportunity cost of allowing it to go unused (since they’ll have other more successful systems) are less than the benefit of listing it on C2.
Basically, if you’re chatting like a Guru for 2 years but haven’t produced anything in that time then to me it’s truly funny (probably because it’s a signal of extreme underperformance). It’s even funnier that new folk continue to take such clowns seriously until they have a little C2 experience under the belt.
that will be individual to each potential subscriber. It depends on the number of trades. Whether one or different types of instruments.
Personally, assuming decent equity curve and decent stats and reasonable money management and a professional-appearing vendor, I think anything with less than 30 trades or less than 4-6 months is probably trash.
At least 6 months history, but preferably a year or more. This depends on how the market behaved during that period. Back-testing is useful for developing a system, of course, but as a client, back-test result claims from the vendor mean squat. That’s why C2 exists.
No more than 20-25% maximum drawdown, with reasonably smooth growth. Return of at least 40-50%. Not that a 20% return would be a bad thing, but trading a C2 system is inherently risky.
I like intermediate holding periods. Not scalping, not weeks. From a few hours to a few days is fine. I personally only trade futures at the moment, but I could trade stocks. I don’t like options or forex much. Whether it’s one instrument or several doesn’t matter to me, as long as it gets results.
The most important thing, other than being profitable, is risk control. I want a system that can’t blow up overnight. Don’t average down, use stops at reasonable levels, trade consistent amounts, and so on. If you keep your discipline, the worst you can do is a gradual decline.
Given my account size, the most I would pay for a system is around $200 per month.
Index you have totally hit the nail on the head. I couldn’t agree with you more.
There is really something to be said for a simple MA with decent money management isn’t there?
Cheers!
"There is really something to be said for a simple MA with decent money management isn’t there?"
Like everything else, without a verifiable lengthy track record, it is still just smoke-and-mirrors or opinion/belief. MAs are lagging, not leading indicators. But it might be useful in not trading against the trend of a reasonable-length MA. But easy, quantifiable rules in trading are seriously lacking. Very very few people realize how difficult it is to become a very longterm, profitable trader.
Even billion-dollar financial institutions struggle to exceed the longterm market average. Many trader wannabes should think long and hard why they think they know more than $5,000,000 a year head traders and $250,000 a year IT quants.
If technical indicators were easy, every hedge fund and investment bank would be using them. Instead, they use arbs, rapid in&outs and other methods that the trader at home cannot afford to do.
The purpose of this post is to ask you what sort of system you would buy.
lol My translation is "I want to develop something for few quick bucks". In reality a system has particular requirements. Wishes of Indexes are irrelevant for tradeability of the system. Simple.
As you might guess, my approach is to find out what you, the customer, want and then make it work.
1000% return with 0% DD and lap-dance from a system vendor. Simple.
Eu
'and lap-dance from a system vendor. Simple.'
Well, that rules out Index (Ross) on a number of levels, not least being that he would just stand there doing nothing except say what every other lap-dancer in history has done wrong, and that any new one was doomed to fail.
