Hi,
Can anyone explain to me why so many people want to trade forex? There seem to be problems with it all the time, but from what I remember, the equity curves of the forex systems are usually far from appealing. What do I miss?
Jules
You are looking at the wrong equity curve. Look at the closed equity curve to get the true, longer-term picture of a system/method.
Jules,
May I? You missed - leverage. You can do nothing with 5-10K in stocks. Actually, imho, you can do nothing with the trading capital in forex as well. The kind of leverage only creates an illusion of make-me-rich-quick schema.
I don’t think that anybody here in C2 cares about most interesting thing in forex - liquidity. The same applies to futures (e-mini).
BTW: What I don’t understand it’s why somebody who has a good system in forex/futures wants to publish it. I don’t believe in BS kind of let’s be rich all together. If you have good system in the instruments just trade it and become rich alone lol
Eu
This is the age-old question, why sell a system?
Why sell a system, or why be a paid advisor? I’ve heard it described as owning a call option. The premium you (developer) pay is the fee you pay C2 to list it. Your downside is limited to premium (listing fee) paid. Upside (call profit potential) is “the sky’s the limit,” based on # of subscribers and the fee you charge.
I can say I offer my systems for the benefit (or detriment, if my systems lose) of mankind, but I’d be just fooling myself and everyone on this site, which goes against everything C2 is all about. C2 tells the “truth” about systems via independent, real time records.
Brian,
It’s pretty simple from my side.
1. Wife - I need a pocket money that she doesn’t control (just kidding)
2. Personal reason, that I’d like to disclose only on birthday party of the system (if there will be any of course)
3. Big guys doesn’t want to buy it, because it’s not scalable on their level.
4. I have four more stocks systems on my shelf that I don’t trade. All of them were backtested and forward tested. All of them are profitable. I don’t trade it. (Hehehe I assume that I suppose to assure you that I’m trading “Tango” as every vendor does lol. No. I don’t trade it. It was designed and adjusted for C2, because BP that might be represented by subscriber… It’s different story.
So… my reasons are pretty simple.
What is yours? 
Eu
Kevin,
The premium you (developer) pay is the fee you pay C2 to list it. Your downside is limited to premium (listing fee) paid. Upside (call profit potential) is “the sky’s the limit,” based on # of subscribers and the fee you charge.
How touching. I’m nearly crying. Hmm… so I beg your pardon, but my translation is, that you want to buy an island from subscribers fee
You don’t need any subscribers for that if you have profitable system on high liquid market. From the point I agree “the sky’s the limit”, but why to publish the kind of system for miserable fee, that C2 offers?
can say I offer my systems for the benefit (or detriment, if my systems lose) of mankind
It’s so charitable from you. Unfortunately there is no charity in trading. (surprise, surprise) and I’m not sure how mankind will benefit from your pure heart.
So… what’s your real reason?
Eu
Eu-
Please reread my post. I said " I can say I offer my systems for the benefit (or detriment, if my systems lose) of mankind, but I’d be just fooling myself and everyone on C2."
This means that I am NOT doing this for the benefit of mankind. There is no charity involved on my end, otherwise my subscription cost would be $0. I’m not afraid to admit I do this for the money. I’ve found being upfront with people is much better than hiding behind a web of lies.
If it isn’t already apparent, my real reason is to make some extra $$ with a limited downside (my initial C2 listing fee).
For the record, I trade with real money every system on I offer on C2 except “Master Mini,” and another award winning system I can’t offer on C2 because it is exclusively offered elsewhere. I have the brokerage stmts to prove it.
I hope I’ve explained myself adequately. I can’t wait for the “birthday” to hear your reason, if I understand your earlier post correctly.
Cheers-
Kevin,
Please reread my post.
I’ve reread it. Agree. Sorry for my mistranslation. So far there are only three persons (including me) who had guts to say about their reasons. Isn’t it funny? I assume that other forex/futures vendors are choosing their island. lol
For the record, I trade with real money every system on I offer on C2
For the record, I don’t trade a system that I offer on C2. And I’m first and last system vendor who admits it. “Tango” was adjusted specifically for C2 in terms of BP potential subscribers. There is no trading of drunk sailor in stocks when liquidity disregarded. It’s special adjustment.
I have the brokerage stmts to prove it.
I never said that I don’t trust you. Actually I trust every statement from system vendors until some point
I can’t wait for the “birthday” to hear your reason, if I understand your earlier post correctly.
You understood it correctly. I don’t have any money reason in C2. But let’s wait the system “birthday party”
Huh… If we have no responses we can a make a picture anyway. So far C2 presents:
1. Sales persons that sales a hope. (it becomes a majority of C2)
2. Gambling persons, that wants gamble on paper for account of subscribers.
3. Third world hmmm… “traders” for whom 100 bucks of subscription is good money.
4. Con artists. (Actually it’s number one, but it’s a little bit different)
5. Did I miss anybody?
Eu
Actually, why vendors offer their systems depends mostly on whether it WORKS or not!
C2 or any other advisory following system (SystemRank, FuturesTruth, Hlbert, etc.) make it glaringly obvious that most systems don’t work. Just here on C2, look at the “newest systems” They come pouring in. If a system doesn’t work, then they are hawked aggressively, hoping to lure subscribers and make money.
Then there are the few systems that actually work (extreme-OS and others). I have studied advisories for about 10 years, subscribed to many, etc. Some successful advisors:
a) just love to teach others - help out, etc. There is probably some of that in most successful advisors. After all, why would an engineer accept half the salary to teach in public schools, if not for the love of teaching others?
b) are more interested in developing systems, than trading. They thrill in getting an edge, and qunatifying it. A track record validates their work, and subscribers pay the bills
c) realize that a stream of income is a nice hedge and income source. Yes there is the idea that you should just keep it to yourself and make a lot of money, but bringing in 5,000 to 20,000 monthly in subscriptions is a nice hedge against drawdowns. Sort of a diversification method. After all, why shouldn’t someone with a great idea maximize his/her returns?
Even if it is lucrative, being overleveraged is a great way to go under, even if your system DOES work. If a person starts out with $3000, it is not easy to become a millionnaire in 18 months. Subscription fees are a nice way to build a starting trading account
Then there are the few systems that actually work (extreme-OS and others).
Here is a post by Randy, an actual previous subscriber to these systems:
Extreme-os is an example of a nearly perfect equity curve (high positive slope, very small drawdown) with a long C2 track record, so it is easy to see why it might be one of the most popular. But achieving the results shown on C2 for this system is not likely in a real account as has been discussed in these forums many times (the best I could do is break even not counting commissions). Ditto for the Coin Collector systems which also have great equity curves on their C2 system pages, but don’t represent what can be realized in a real trading account.
Draw your own conclusions.
ps: It takes time to perfect a system/method. Microsoft did not come out with a stable OS overnight. It took them decades. Ross, you are malicious individual, bent on wrecking havoc whichever forum you go.
"Ross, you are malicious individual, bent on wrecking havoc whichever forum you go."
What in the world have you been smoking? You quote someone about who is not happy with a popular system and I am malicious?
My post about systems is quite accurate. Apparently you missed the whole point.
The posts previous to mine were wondering why system developers sell their systems to others. I have spent a great deal of time with hundreds of newsletters, websites, advisories, etc. well before C2, which is a great resource, by the way.
Now which is malicious - posting a realistic view about a topic, or making an uninformed slander against someone you don’t even know? Whats wrong with you???!
But since you insist on slapping labels on others, here is what others have to say about Pal Anand posts:
"I ask that for all future comments youd like to share on my message board are presented in a respectful and professional manner. I insist that you shoot straight on my board with a level of respect youd want shown on your board. "
“Pal: I have to admit that you talk a good trade but your systems don’t appear to back what you preach.”
"Pal. You always preach about position sizing and pretend you know it all. Looking at your systems:
Midas Short Term: Dropped from about 250K to MINUS 100K in about a month. A real account would have been wiped out. Midas Medium Term: Had a 80% and 50% drawdown. Both over a matter of a month.
Midas Long Term: Is your best performing system with “only” a 50% drawdown. You are like a parrot about all your quotes about position sizing, money management and probably anything else you write about. Just like a parrot you have the ability to quote other people with absolute no understanding what you are saying. It does sound impressive though.
This is clear that you can talk the talk, but can’t walk the talk. Why do you think anyone should pay attention to what you say? If you are following your own advice in your own systems, you are disproving everything you say, as this clearly is not working. If you are not following your own advice, then why should anyone else?
"Pal: You are saying you have the perfect algorithm to get your timing right, but find it too time-consuming? Do you realize how stupid this sound? What are you doing instead? Taking wild guesses? …Who do you think you are fooling by saying you think you have nailed the timing part? You DO realize your systems track records are there to see for everyone and we do not have to take your word? Your medium term system have open profits of -17000 and the other two of -27000. I guess you were early again? "
I get it. You have no worthwhile system of your own. What happened to the one and only system you had? Finally realized that it is a worthless system? You could not develop a good system on your own and so you are only malicious, but ridden with envy of others success and become raving mad.
You get precisely nothing. You ignore what others say, assume you know what they meant, and then apply nasty terms to others you don’t know. I hope you graduate from kindergarten soon - the more you say, the less I realize you know
First I am malicious, then I am raving mad and envying other systems.
Since evidence, logic and reality seem to have little influence on you, I will make the mistake of responding (on your next post, I will probable be responsible for world hunger).
As for my one and only system, It actually works quite fine.That system never had any trades posted. That makes a system worthless? I have no envy of any other systems, I only wish them well on their endeavours. But since i am envious, based on the testimony of others, I certainly do not envy your works!
It actually works fine? Lets see you prove it. I think you got the rabies.
Why should I worry about proving anything to you? People develop systems for their own interests, not to compare whose is bigger in the locker room.
If someone showed you a system that made 100% in a year, you would laugh because it didn’t make 200%.
I have seen enough of you. It is like arguing with a 4 year old - names and all. This is my last post in this thread.
It should be about 15 minutes until your next response, because I am sure you have to have to have the last word…
3… 2… 1…
You go about putting cold water in other peoples honest designs. You twist other peoples comments on my systems/methods and conveniently leave out my responses that would have explained those peoples true intentions. I’m pretty sure that you do not have any worthwhile system to offer and never had any.
I wont laugh at any of your systems. I just want to see some honest, reliable and productive vendors offering good systems. I am disappointed that I am not seeing that at C2. That is why I dont have any system listed in my “My Analyst” page. This cannot continue forever. Good system vendors would leave due to the biased way the systems are promoted and current subscribers would leave also because they are not able to find and trade good systems becasue of the way they are represented that makes it extremely hard to find good systems. I’m trying to change the things for the better by presenting my case for objectively evaluating systems and promoting them. I don’t have any hidden agenda behind this except world domination. Just kidding. 
ps: By the way, your analysis about successful advisors was enlightening. I have no doubt you are highly knowledgeable and an intellectual, but your pessimistic attitude does bother me. You might very well be a natural leader, but I would suggest that you relax your exacting standards a bit. You are dogmatic and base your decisions/conclusions on unproven or improvable principles.
I love to see how my simple question about Forex can lead to world domination. Meanwhile, it seems that I got only response from people who do not trade forex…
Jules
Jules … there are at least three forex systems with very attractive equity curves (Risk-Averse FX, High-Sharpe FX, and Currency Scalper). I’m trading Currency Scalper now and it is doing very well (and just doubled the subscription price BTW). These three systems have relatively smooth equity curves compared to most of the other forex systems, and with the new C2 quote feed management it should be much easier to follow them via autotrading. My Currency Scalper results match C2’s results almost perfectly for the short time I have been trading the system, but (so far) it has no cancel/replace orders and all market orders for entry which makes it very autotradable.
Pal
You are the last person to call anyone malicious. Do you think we forgot how you called people idiots and morons under your alias of Kavin Sundar? And then after you got caught, you changed that alias to Futurware Inc and when that got pointed out again to you, you changed the alias to John Galt.
I encourage anyone to search the forums for “idiot” and read the posts from John Galt and Brian Moor’s posting of the PM he received from Kavin Sundar calling Brian a moron. Kavin Sundar, Futureware Inc and John Galt is the alias Pal is using and show who the real Pal is. Quite the opposite of what he is trying to portray himself.
Chris
