Is C2 a waste of time?

When you log in to C2 it shows a number for ‘Traded in the last 7 days* based on C2 Trading Systems’. This number is currently (7 July 11) oscillating roughly around the $250,000,000 mark.

I am sure this is meant to impress potential followers by being a big number but is it me or don’t people think this number is insanely low? The current value of a single trade of the emini S&P is $50 x 1350ish i.e. $67,500.

I do realise that futures are more highly leveraged (lower margined) than many other products and that not everything is autotraded but am going to use this as a short hand example.

If a system trades the mini S&P 500 about 7 times in a week, and has 200 autotrade subscribers, that would currently be over a third of ALL subscribers across ALL systems per C2’s own number.

So does this site basically just consist of vendors and in reality NOONE has that type of subscriber number i.e. is this whole exercise is a complete waste of time?

I apologise if this sounds hostile to C2, it isnt intended to, I do like the concept of this site. I am just left with the question, could any vendor make a reasonable living from C2 income alone?



I like C2 and as a trader, I’m looking for good systems to trade and finding good systems is a difficult task. Most subscribers jump into a system, incur some draw down and jump out. C2 is still relatively young and need time to build up. I can NOT find any site that is better than C2 for me to trade… I’ve been with a few brokerage vendors and trade their systems and their offer are limited and NOT as transparent as C2. Any system that makes money for subscribers consistently will eventually attract a lot of clients. I’m currently trading 3 systems on C2. I was trading a lot more systems before but I was loosing money and left quite a few of them.

Your system is a good system (based on current C2 result) and I will eventually added to my portfolios. It will take time, not all systems are profitable and profitable systems will survive and thrive with time.

-Anh Nguyen

It is difficult to find a good system and it is hard to make decision. Many people complained my trading on JVA with big size. Now look at JVA, they should realize what they have missed. It soared more than 300% within 3 months.

There are a few here making excellent income but their systems have long track records, several years. I think people want to see profits every single day, and any day there’s drawdown, they think maybe the system isn’t working. So, I think sticking to a system, which brings the developer consistent and increasing income with new subscribers, requires traders on C2 to feel familiar with the system.

My first system, still very new on C2, is up nicely for the year, much more than most investments earn. It’s set to return over 100% for the year, and at 48% wins, it’s in line with its test statistics. It’s running perfectly. No one is subscribed.

As developers, we’re familiar with our systems because we created them from the ground up, rigorously tested them, and fully understand everything about them. Other traders only know what they see of the system on C2, and we even hide the system’s tactics (necessarily).

Can you make good money? Yes. I think it takes a long time. Now when I put a system on C2, I plan on keeping it here for at least five years.

My 2 cents:

There is a good reason why subscribers don’t flourish on C2, even if C2 is in business for 7-8 years now.

The system is designed from grown up to screw everyone, and this is how it manages that:

- Greed on the developer side who might have too many subscribers without knowing.

- Greed on the subscribers side who could trade a strategy more and more until the system breaks

- Failure on C2 to protect your system privacy (I found a lot of people on internet who claim they are reverse engineering C2 systems all the time)

- (for those doing algorithmic trading) Poor tools to report system performance under good faith (by either providing good bactest data, or by providing a list of parallel predictions for accurate reporting, which matters more IMHO than single results)

- No tools to report and warn both subscriber and system creator about how much a system could be traded without being affected by timing issues, or about bid-ask spread

- Business model “pay a fee, trade as much as you want” does not for reward system developers correctly. You basically are rewarded based on the buzz a system does, instead of performance.

- Even with this, C2 owners are busy launching a sister website … that is way I have some doubts about C2 ability and willingness to do the right choices and investments to go to the next level.

C2 is a wonderful idea and it will stay in business because simply does not have good competition, as much as I think C2 sucks (for these reasons and many more), C2 is really the only viable option for stock system developers.

What I think C2 could do to make the system more successful:

1) make all system developers autotrade their system at 1x, and make their orders execute last!

2) remove the manual trading option

3) preserve the privacy of a systems as much as they can

4) move from “pay a fee” to “pay based on performance” multiplied with trade volume.

If you do not reward system developers based on actual performance and if systems developers don’t have their skin in the game, you can’t make C2 a success story for everyone.

Welcome to "Silly" club, Edison Nica!

You won a competition for vice-chairman.


club chairman.

C2 is no more a waste of time than Striker, Attain, World Cup or any other venue that allows the public to trade a third party system/call service. One could argue they are all worthless or have value.

The fact is over 90% of systems, signal services and traders in general lose money. That is the playing field and everything else is noise.

C2 is rather valuable for the non CTA (like myself) to build a track record and be able to put myself out there honestly and make it clear that I’m not just making up everything (like 99% of promoters). If you are serious and plan to be in this game for a few years and are not an established professional then it is very valuable for building a track record. So, on that respect it is very valuable for the aspiring professional.

As for selling signals, I’ve not see that demonstrated. Hopefully I’ll be proved wrong. But, I don’t think it is a very viable option for generating worthwhile income on a system. At least I haven’t seen it and I’ve 2 of the top ranked long term futures systems here.

I do not agree with your suggestions about how to improve c2 either. For example, I use the manual trading and for my discretionary trading which is a benefit. The one thing would help c2 would be to keep subscribers here and making money (from the systems). It is unclear exactly how one would do that.

The other interesting thing on that page is there are only about 3.5 members for every system. :slight_smile:

I am on the weekly gainner list for last 2 weeks, but I still did not get serious subscribers. :slight_smile:

You started your system on June 29th. Surely you must be joking.


what is your website name

Now I am on the weekly gainner list for 2 weeks. ^_^.

JVA hit it big and I caught it too! Congrats on finding it even earlier than I did. I’m new to this site and started through and just published my fund on here. I am basically using it as a learning tool as I am about to graduate college with an economics degree. Now I’m just trying to read up on how to possibly at least make enough money to cover possible costs included with keeping this fund up and running. If any of you guys have positive criticism and/or some thoughts. Please let me know! [LINKSYSTEM_60190557] Thanks a lot!

Looking back, you can see how many people here(mostly system developers) critized how big I put on JVA. Now you can see how much they missed. They just have no idea about trading, have no idea how to find great stocks. I still hold JVA in my real trading, it is really a waste of time to discuss trading with them.

Just as Livermore, the great trader, meant, the marjority on the market are suckers. They just come to the market to feed other few people. Sorry about being rude, but it is a true fact. The reality is always brutel. The market is not a voting system, you do not have to be politically correct.

there are a few reasons why the quality of subscribers is low, again my 2 cents:

1) I trade myself my system, and even if the system had drawndown of 3-4%, It was very hard to do manually what computer said. Still I made $294 in cash until now, and on C2 I did $1100 in less than a month. But if I would have followed blindly the computer I would have made much more :frowning:

2) Second, there might be another reason why subscribers jump the boat so quickly: Unlike other websites with systems, on C2 the system developer pays a fee. This means that developers who put here results are already better because they self select! So even if one would trade free or low priced, or from time to time a system, he would probably make money anyway in the long run.

Hmm, Livermore’s quotes are great. However, he blew his account several times, twice to complete bankruptcy. As he took other’s money, others took his - easy come, easy go. Exciting for gambling with a bit of spare cash, but that’s not a trading strategy I’d feel comfortable putting my hard earned savings into!

Good call Dean.

Consistency in results is the goal for most "serious" traders.

Other "traders" (read gamblers) just enjoy the roller coaster ride! (oftentimes not only in money, but life and love too)


P.S. Good job on your consistent trading!

Less than 5.000 unique visitors per day !!! , this number includes the system developers.

c2 claims 15.000 systems…Do the math !!!

C2 is a scam for the reasons I post in other message.

C2 has serious conflicts of interests, unless the site´s owner follows the Madoff code of ethics.