Discretionary Day Trading Strategies anyone?

Pete
I have been trading this account for real since mid November 2017 but did not come onto C2 until Mid March 2018. I did trade through through Feb. period but not the first 2 week in March ( away on holiday ). In mid Nov. I started with 19900 and as of today it stands at 28783, which I believe is + 44%. gains from inception.

OSUTAI
You are absolutely correct, the mindset is different with real money compared to paper trading.

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Absolutely CORRECT AlgoSystems

When I said VixTrader, I meant Volatilitytrader:

A great system, run by a pro, 50% DD… where his being TOS doesn’t tell the whole story. I have a lot of respect for him, just it would have been nice to know this is just a small portion of his total assets… for him, the risk was totally ok… for us, not so.

I really do like him though, don’t have enough account to go back even on small scale unfortunately, nor do I see how one could time an entry on a system that has 50% DD… Good luck to him, he’s typically a good C2 developer and if we had had more of him, and more clarity, plus better monitoring of our sizing, we could have made it work.

I think TOS should be either 100% or not at all. It is completely misleading if you can get the badge for partial TOS. Maybe C2 can have different colour TOS badge for partial TOS systems.

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Guillame,I traded normally during this period, but the system began to give mistakes and went bad trade. What about my main job - yes I work in parallel and trade in the markets. But this does not mean that I hammered it somewhere, hammered it into trade, and let it go. I responsibly trade and trade and not one day was missing. Yes, there were only days where I did not manage to enter normally or stay in position, but as a whole I would still get a loss. We was can save somewhere 10%.
Therefore, such cases. Now full revision of tools and small corrections in strategy.
I wish you to recover and all the best.

Got it. Here is my lesson I learned on c2 and losses I had.

A system with 50% DD I would be more cautious, lower my scaling or monitor the trades more closely. Which surprisingly I haven’t loss any money in high draw down systems. But I have loss a lot of money on system with good performance, low drawdown. Because I didn’t monitor closely. Or they went from typical trading 1 future contract to trading 10 contract during a bad streak. And I have been fooled by strategy descriptions or name like “don’t worry” “conservative futures” or “slow and easy gains”

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A license is no guarantee of winning trades and consistent profit. To believe that is silly. I suspect there is far more money lost by license holders than those who aren’t licensed. Trading is psychological for the most part. TOS provides no security from losses. In fact, it can be, and has been argued that traders perform better in demo mode versus live. If you are a trader you can certainly relate.

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This is not correct. They position themselves as “The world’s first distributed hedge fund.”

Whether this is accurate or not, that’s a separate discussion but even for a hedge fund (let alone for a signal provider – that they are not), they are not cheap. Between the trade leaders and the subs they earn well above 30% of their entire revenue. This makes them “the world’s most expensive hedge fund.”

For this type of $$ it is reasonable that users (both trade leaders and subs) expect service.

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of course, thats what we all have heard and know. Except that in C2 setting there is subscription fee involved which changes the game slightly. Still I stick with TOS vs Non TOS has no relevance in terms of losing money:)

not really - its peanuts from the subscription fee. has nothing to compare with a hedge fund that would charge 2% of AUM and 20% of profits.

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It is very easy to identify people reliably. (e.g. by credit card.)

Call me a cynic, but it is not in C2’s interest to discourage (prevent) scam-artists to collect (and share with them) $$ or not to accept $$ from 1 week old systems for promotion.

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Short-term that is true but if C2 wants to develop long-term relationships, e.g. get me to continue to pay them monthly auto-trade fees and their cut of the subscription fees year after year they should be motivated to eliminate bad actors and promote competent/successful system owners.

Call me an optimist but I believe that C2 is more focused on their long-term success rather than some short-term profits from churning new systems.

The fact that systems like “UVXY trader” and “Diamond” (among others) are allowed to show BS track records and get subscribers (of which C2 takes a chunk of $$) makes me think this statement is wrong. The longer these systems run and rake in fees, the less credibility C2 has as a serious platform. Looking more and more like a scam to me.

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Just received this email from C2 a second ago, I guess that answers my question about what happens when a system owner stops trading a system that is “TOS” certified:

"Hi, Pete -
We are sending you this email because you are following the trading strategy called 25K Emini SP Portfolio on Collective2.

Until recently, this trading system was “Trades-Own-Strategy (TOS) Certified” - which meant that the manager of the trading strategy traded it in a live and funded brokerage account. As of this moment, however, the trade leader has unlinked his real brokerage account from the strategy.

We are unable to pass any judgement about why the trade leader stopped trading his or her own strategy, or whether this is a temporary or permanent condition.

We simply wanted to inform you about this change in TOS Certification status. As of now, TOS Certification has been revoked."

Pete
You normally get this message when the strategy is de-linked from broker transmit. This could happen for a reason. I had to do this once because my broker contract was not in sync with c2. C2 had picked up an extra contract from somewhere, so I had to de-link and manually remove that extra contract using c2 platform. It only took few minutes , before linking again.

Matt had a break down of c2 revenue a year ago when they try to raise capital. C2 actually make majority of the income from subscribers auto trade fee and 30% cut off developer profits.

Yes, new listing fee and reset fee is a revenue source, but gaining “Trust” and make the website more transparent will also grow the client base over time. I truly believe c2 has something special compare to all other “trading” “guru” site out there.

hi Pete, i had a same issue with another developer earlier this year. I just dm the leader, he said he switch acct # from individual to an C-Corp for tax reason, and it will link TOS back up in 2 weeks. delink- and relink TOS its not something alarming, I seen maybe 5 of those since i been on c2. Only 1 time, the developer never relink TOS, and he left c2 completely.

Thanks I did just that right when it happened - I should have posted an update here as well because I don’t want to leave a false impression about that system.

The system owner explained that he switched from one IB account to another and he was going to contact C2 support to get the TOS restored since he never stopped autotrading, just changed the account he was using to do so.

Can you think of any empirical evidence of your optimism?

[Before you ask: here is one for my cynicism: last year they cut back the functionality of the autotrade technology three times and at the same time increased the price threefold. And incidentally: the issue of eliminating bad actors is a constant topic on this forum for a long time. Did you notice any progress?]

Why do you say it is peanuts? They have $0 AUM and they charge 30% from trade leaders and $1-4K for autotrade per sub. Hedge funds charge 20% of new profit – they have skin in the game. C2 doesn’t.

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