Being quite fearful of Algos and a discretionary trader myself, I’m looking to make a list of good discretionary systems, in particular day trading systems…
The one I found and that I really like is OPN W888
There is also Millionnaire Maker, it is very new, see separate thread about him
VolatilityTrader, who you could say isn’t exactly day trading, may fit the profile
I would discount from this thread any strategy that may be day trading but is an algo, such as Day Trader Futures
I’m basically looking for other strategies such as OPN… as I believe there is a need for such system that can adjust with time with a human actually looking at the chart and making educated decisions.
I like the first strategy the most as well. Good money-management.
Despite having less than 35% profitable trades, the trader made 72% profit last year.
Too early to judge the second one.
Maybe wait 6 months or more.
Third trader is shorting options!
Many option strategies got busted this month.
But I’m not sure how to calculate the worst case scenario with this strategy.
Just calculate flash crash as worst scenario. Tomorrow open down mkt down 10%
Any strategy that scalp or intraday would be fine.
I’m sub to 3rd and 4th strategy. If tomorrow mkt drops 10%. Volatilitytrader would be down about 260k. So that’s a 30% draw down. Of course that not the worst case scenario, worst case is probably world war 3 starts this weekend, mkt down 50% Monday. And most
Strategies on c2 crashes.
4th strategy is just intraday. So it should survive WW3.
Soze Investments. 100%discretionary.
Hi, i want to inform you about a new discretionary intraday system “PlayTheDifference”.
In this system i aim to get earnings from the difference of two high correlated futures, S&P 500 and DAX.
Specifically , i always open one short /long position in S&P500 future and the opposite position long/short in mini-DAX future but two contracts because they must have almost the same value.
Value of 1 contract in S&P500: 2735,75x50= 136787,5
Value of 2 contracts in mini-Dax: 12477x5x2x1,25=155962,5
Generally I like this type of trading because the relative value of these two contracts move in a narrow range ( because of high correlation) and the movements are very clear (there is low noise).
The method I use for trading is both trend following, when there is low volatility and clear movement , and mean reversion when there is high volatility.
Seldom when there is extreme volatility one more position is possible to open (one more pair of 1 contract of S&P500 and 2 contracts of mini-DAX) to take advantage of high volatility).
An important thing is that all the positions are intraday and close before the close of NYSE to minimize the risk of system.
My target is about 10%-15% return per month, expecting maximum drawdown of 15%.
So you are hedge the future position with another future. It shows you have a 50% hedge. Why not just do a normal hedge? Or just do 1 less contact?
This is same as those market neutral hedge funds. Long cola-cola Short Pepsi, Long JPM Short GS.
Can you explain more why not use other hedge or just reduce trade size by half? In comparison of what you are doing.
@johnkur - this is one of the more unique strategies I’ve seen. I assume you’ve backtested this.
Is the theory that you are basically trying to trade the mini-DAX and just using ES contracts to hedge?
Again, very unique. Will keep an eye on this one.
On another note, 10-15% seems kind of a ridiculously high bar. Might want to tone it down bro.
Hi some explenations for the system “PlayTheDifference”.
I don’t hedge my positions. I open simultaneously two opposite positions in two high correlated futures. Actually i trade a new instrument which is created as below
"2 contracts of mini-DAX minus 1 contract of e-mini S&P"
and i try to make profit from the movements of this new instrument in two different ways.
if i expect the new instrument to raise i will buy 2 contracts of mini-DAX and sell 1 contract of e-mini S&P.
if i expect the new instrument to decline i will sell 2 contracts of mini-DAX and buy 1 contract of e-mini S&P.
As i said I like this type of trading because the relative value of these two contracts move in a narrow range ( because of high correlation) and the movements are very clear (there is low noise). Also i like that this moves independently from the market sentiment. Finally i approach the market with technical analysis using both trend following and mean reversion strategies with time-filters. i study DAX, S&P 500 and the new instrument charts to implement these strategies.
So it’s like a straddle strategy with futures. Trying to profit on both side. But with 2 different size one leg, timing when to close 1 or close both the same time is gonna be important.
Best of luck, will keep an eye out for sure. I believe 2018 will be a choppy year so it should be a good strategy. But any 1 sides mkt like 2017 It won’t do as well.
@SozeInvestments , can you please explain your methodology and protections please
@johnkur, I see on Feb 16, you had 6 Mini Dax and 3 ES open same time, 3 times the usual size, with a relatively high DD. This would raise an eyebrow with most people as qualifying for martingale…
In a previous message i said that "Seldom when there is extreme volatility one more position is possible to open (one more pair of 1 contract of S&P500 and 2 contracts of mini-DAX) to take advantage of high volatility"
No more contracts after this will open.
At that day (02/16/2018) you are reffering if you careful see i had closed one pair (1 Mini Dax and 1 ES) and then i opened it again. So the max position was 4 Mini Dax and 2 ES.
Below i give you the transactions
2/16/18 10:30 DXMH8 MINI-DAX INDEX SHORT 6 12470.0 2/16 15:43 12475.0 3.8% ($234)
116557549 2/16/18 10:30 STO 2 DXMH8 12430.0
116563285 2/16/18 12:51 STO 2 DXMH8 12525.0
116565257 2/16/18 13:42 BTC 2 DXMH8 12473.0
116566428 2/16/18 14:19 STO 2 DXMH8 12455.0
116569208 2/16/18 15:43 BTC 4 DXMH8 12476.0
2/16/18 10:30 @ESH8 E-MINI S&P 500 LONG 3 2739.33 2/16 15:43 2738.50 4.16% ($149)
116557553 2/16/18 10:30 BTO 1 @ESH8 2737.75
116563286 2/16/18 12:51 BTO 1 @ESH8 2748.50
116565256 2/16/18 13:42 STC 1 @ESH8 2742.50
116566429 2/16/18 14:19 BTO 1 @ESH8 2731.75
116569207 2/16/18 15:43 STC 2 @ESH8 2736.50
@johnkur so basically you´re trading a market neutral spread strategy for futures. (not to confuse with option spreads, those are directional trades of course)
This should work indeed because it´s a common strategy for large hedgefunds. However I wonder how you want to achieve 15% per month… That´s ridiculous to be honest. Hedgefunds make 5-10% per year after interest with such a strategy so either you´re completely overleveraging - which kills the account rather sooner than later - or you have a crystal ball… Altough the S&P500 and DAX are strongly correlated they still move in different directions from time to time. So you somehow have to predict these movements or your spread will lose money big time…
Anyways, good luck and maybe we can admire your great results in 3 months - if your strategy survives that long.
I admire it more than yours. As do most people here. It’s an original idea and good execution so far. Maybe he has stops, hopefully. I think the max draw down will probably exceed 15%. But if he continues true to his system he certainly has more potential than others on here.
My only advice would be to keep your position sizes the same, despite the growth in capital. It might make returns look not quite as good from a % standpoint but it will make it easier for subscribers to scale, and will keep you from going bust as quickly. And finally - STAY true to your system. If it doesn’t work don’t go crazy and do something new - it never works out and people can tell you went off course.
Go kill it dog!
OPN W888 has done quite well in the last few months.
But as far as I can see it’s not a day trading strategy.
Here are two more good discretionary day trading strategies.
(As long as they make more profit than the subscription price )
They have very strict risk-management.
Omg the price and 3 months old. What a joke
I wouldn’t laugh too hard. He is laughing all the way to the bank as he has already made several thousand dollars off subscribers.
Also Guillaume aren’t you the guy who actually subscribed to that absurd “Millionaire Maker” system? lol.
MM was 50 USD and I subscribed to see what it was doing trade vs chart. Best way to evaluate it.
Feel free to subscribe the both above systems for 997 USD I’ll stick with OPN for $88
Honestly who prices a system at $500… anyway it’s not my business but his.
Also on reply to above OPN definitely day trading. Some positions are kept overnight but it is very active and most positions are closed within hours. So maybe not pure day trading but really it mostly is.
Well, in the opening post you wrote that you are looking
for good discretionary day trading systems.
And those two strategies absolutely do fit your criteria.
I wouldn’t post them here if they are not worthwhile a try.
Personally I think they have the best risk-management on C2.
Yes, they are expensive, I agree.
But for me it’s OK, as long as the strategies make more profit than they cost.
As far as I can see, there are about 60 subscriptions combined for both strategies.
They all wouldn’t pay 500$ if they think that this is a joke.
Payoff Matrix made 10K profit in three months, costs 1,5K.
Backward Induction made 2K in less than a month, costs 0,5K.
aum108, Those people who criticize these two systems obviously did not take advantage of the free subscription offer from Payoff Matrix in the beginning, otherwise they would have realized in a short period of time that this developer might be one of the best traders who ever came to C2.