Hi,
(if you’re lazy there’s a one sentence summary at the bottom)
I’m having some problems with stocks getting shorted when they shouldn’t be.
I’m trading the YES3 stock system using TradeBullet. I sometimes close out positions manually using Trader Workstation for IB, or manually using Tradebullet.
The YES3 stock system holds a few dozen different stocks, and continually adjusts position sizes with buy and sell orders (up to 20-30 a day). YES3 only buys then sells, like a cash account.
I’m trading YES3 in a reg t margin, and several of the stocks I’ve closed manually end up shorted later when YES3/TB/TWS send a sell order for a non-existent system, so I end up having a double sell order executed usually days to weeks later.
There is no preset available on TWS to prevent the shorting of stocks unless it’s a cash account, and TradeBullet did not have a solution. GEN3 is prohibitively expensive to use, due to the high number of trade signals going through every day.
Does TradeBullet report to C2 all the active positions in TWS? I do not understand the interface between C2 and TB. Since TB has my TWS portfolio positions through the TB/TWS , and my C2 account information, is this information integrated so that C2 is aware of my active positions---- or does TB passively receive trade signals from C2?
Right now, I find myself closing positions on shorted stocks a few times a day, and with the performance of the YES3 system, a shorted position if ignored for a while can cause a moderate loss of equity.
I understand this is the result of manually closing positions before a close trade signal is sent, and is my fault, but any ideas on how to stop this happening would be great. No one I’ve talked/written to from IB’s TWS or TB had an idea of how to take care of this.
Thanks to anyone in the community who has a solution or a workaround for this. I would be willing to pay for a technical or programming solution. I have limited trade experience, so I apologize if the solution to this is obvious to you guys.
Summary
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How do I stop C2/TradeBullet/IB’s TWS from shorting stocks I manually closed on a margin account?
[LINKSYSTEM_36868418]
Hi Michael,
I doubt that I can give you a satisfactory answer but here it goes:
1) Have you e-mailed this question to Francis Gingras from TradeBullet? He has been very helpful to my inquiries.
2) Have you checked the box "Synchronize positions with C2 using market orders" on the Collective2 tab? On the other hand, turning this auto synch feature on may actually cause some of the problems. I personally have auto synch turned off because I had problems with it in the past but for certain systems it might be necessary.
3) When you go to Tools>Options>Orders have you made sure the box: "Allow multiple systems on same stock" is unchecked. The user guide regarding this box says: " Check this box to allow stocks and Collective2 Sell orders even if there is no open position. Should be used only by users who want to trade multiple strategies on the same instrument. Disabled by default"
Now I have some questions to you since I am also interested in YES3 and was considering trading it:
1) When you started the system did you enter the existing open positions manually or through auto synch?
2) If you used auto sync did you have any problems establishing all the open position which presently are well over 100. The reason I ask is because I had previously auto synch problems with other systems which also required to start with a large number of open positions.
3) IB limits the market data lines to 100. Since the system has over 100 open positions do all the 100 plus positions show up in your Account Window at TWS?
I recently sent two PMs to the vendor, in the first one I asked him if I should turn auto synch on to establish all the open positions and he promptly replied in the affirmative. In the second one I asked him if he knows if any of his subscribers trades his system successfully with IB via TB and if he trades the system for his own account but he has not replied to this one.
Regards,
Karl
[LINKSYSTEM_36868418]
I made a mistake when reading the Tradebullet help files — I’m running 2 forex and 1 stock system from C2, and the ‘allow multiple systems’ applies only to stocks, not forex. I have it disabled currently, and everything is working fine.
Here’s answers to your questions:
1. I did not allow TB to place market orders to sync with YES3. I did not sync manually either. Since YES3 only buys then sells, I assumed that entering existing positions immediately may not be good — it’s entering a lot of positions at potentially a bad price.
2. No autosync. I would highly NOT recommend using autosync. YES3 uses small order sizes to trade large positions, I’m assuming to avoid slippage during entry and exit. Using autosync to get in line with YES3 would be a significant loss to your equity, I’d imagine very significant for the largest positions held in the YES3 portfolio.
3. I don’t know, I have less than 100.
I use Tradebullet and IB on a Windows 2003 sp2 virtual private server from kickassvps.com.
Hope this helps,
Regards, Mike
Mike,
I don’t think I can agree with your recommendation not to enter all open position at once when you start the system. The vendor manages a large portfolio, very skillfully so far, by constantly adding to or subtracting from existing positions and when he uses inverse ETFs it is for the purpose to hedge the whole portfolio in its entirety. By trying to cherry pick certain positions you are effectively saying that you can manage the portfolio better than him.
I have not decided yet if I want to trade it but if I do I would enter all positions at once through autosync and then turn autosync off. When I previously checked the system page there were about 130 open positions and my concern was whether TradeBullet with autosync can handle that - I previously had run into difficulties trying to open a large portfolio at once. But when I am checking the site right now I see that he has substantially less open positions, I assume he is preparing or expecting a correction.
Anyway, should I decide to trade it it would be nice to be able to compare notes with you. Previously, on the My Analyst page there was a way to send PMs to people who posted there but I do not see it anymore.
All the best,
Karl
Thanks for all the helpful comments. Reading my above post again, I agree with you about cherry picking causing problems, although so far it has resulted in consistent gains. Thanks for giving me something to research and help improve my trading.
Since YES3 has so many open positions, I had thought slippage would be a problem, but I guess a very diversified portfolio won’t experience that if you autosync.
Thanks for correcting my interpretation of the YES3 strategy.
Feel free to message me any time.
Regards, Mike
Thanks for the reply and showing me a way to get in touch with you by PM.
One thing I forgot to mention is that if auto sync was used to establish existing positions I think one also would have to check the box: “Allow multiple systems on the same stock”. The reason why I believe that is because if the system issues a sell order it won’t recognize existing positions establisched either by autosync or manually (and not by the system itself) and therefore would not sell existing positions, it would simply ignore the order. But I am not sure if this is how it works - one simply has to try and watch.
Regards,
Karl
