Matthew,
Take a look at the gainers and losers this quarter list. There is clearly something wrong there as the entire gainers list goes down to +0.3% suggesting that there were only 10 or so winning systems on the whole site - and mine isnt even listed! The loser list goes down to about -0.4%, so clearly not all systems are being looked at.
Not sure about the othere lists - weekly, monthly etc.
I believe that what happened is that there is a brief period during the night when equity gains/losses are being recalculated. The list is innacurate for that period. If you look now, you’ll see the list is correct.
Matthew,
Time now 10:30 ET and the list is still as it was hours ago - clearly incorrect. Did you not bother to look before replying that it was ok now?
You show 15 systems as positive for the quarter, with the 15th being +0.3% and 15 losers with the 15th of those at -0.4%. Makes it look like there are only 30 or so active systems on C2, which is obviously incorrect.
Is there no-one else on this site, for such an obvious error to go un-noticed?
Doesnt bode well for the tricky things like auto-trading, when the simple stuff like listing quarterly winners and losers can be messed up so badly, IMO.
As far as I remember, Matthew already answered this question before. I think he said, the lists are fixed length of 15 and gainers/losers are selected randomly to fill up the 15 slots.
- Fanus
Actually, there was a bug in the way quarterly and monthly gainers/losers were selected. Until today, the software effectively randomly dropped some selections based on the time of day certain equity calculations were performed. I believe this is now fixed. - MK
Here’s a better fix. Systems that have recently been under $75,000 are barred from making the “Recent Gainer” list. For example, system “Z” went under $0, and came way back!
The Recent Gainers is populated with way too many lemons. For example on the Gainers this week - Who gives a whoopee that Livius Hedge went from $25K to $70K? Or Weekly Hot Stoks are coming back from $40K? Or Money for Nothing came from $45K to $80K (and had been as low as 10K on a previous swoon? Not to mention Master Mini S&P and High Probability coming back from under $60K and $40K
Most traders would have pulled the plug long before then!!!
These aren’t recent gainers, they needed CPR to get a pulse back…
> Here’s a better fix. Systems that have recently been under $75,000 are barred from making the “Recent Gainer” list.
That doesn’t make sense Ross. Why is an account that dips below 75K
any different than a 200K account that dips to 150K? Both have a 25%
DD. Again…and again:
reward good risk/reward ratios in the rankings.
Nothing is more important when you are looking at real money.
> For example, system “Z” went under $0, and came way back!
I agree with that. Anyone who dips under zero should be out of the game.
I am saying do SOMETHING to squeeze out some of the lemons. Give them to some little girl and her lemonade stand…
For example, about 30% of the systems would have been eliminated, just from this simple filter (I mentioned 5 or 6 out of 15 just using a $75,000 threshold). But since anything can make the list, a lot of systems that revert to the mean appear, but have no value make the list.
It could even be that systems that are recovering form some percentage swoon get cut. But that is not really necessary to make a sizable dent.
But I don’t want this suggestion to get bogged down in the merits of what filter to pick or why anything should be done or yada yada. Too many good suggestions from people have gotten buried by 20 posters debating what was meant or how they think it should be done… This recent gainers screen is near useless without some kind of filtration.
Let this one go.
Personally, I’m not very interested in which systems have gained or lost in the past week (or the last 2 days). I’m slightly interested in which systems have gained in the last month, and somewhat more interested in which systems have gained in the past quarter.
C2 shows all these lists. Which time period is selected is random. Each time you load the home page on C2, a new list is selected.
Why do these lists appear? Well, part of it (the “Gainers in the past day” lists, for example) are just good fun. But I think it is interesting to see which systems are doing well recently. The point of the list isn’t to show overall good systems, or to recommend systems you should trade. The point of the list is to call attention to systems that you may have completely overlooked for whatever reason. That’s why we don’t do any filtering.
It is possible to extract some value from these lists. I’m always interested in a system that was a dog for 6 months and then suddenly started doing well. I ask myself: Why is this system suddenly doing better? What kind of strategy does it employ? Is this strategy better suited to today’s markets?
Finally, if you are interested in a carefully filtered list, I suggest you look at some of the site’s Hot Lists – where mathematical filtering is used, or in the Advanced Search feature.
MK
> For example, system “Z” went under $0, and came way back!
In this case the owner of Z uses it to promote interest in his other
systems. While Z should be defunct twice over, C2 allows the
owner to use it to tout himself. This is the exact area where C2
should bring a dose of reality to it’s rankings…not just the RF.
I’m finding myself agreeing with Ross again - and SC.
It seems to me that the home-page on this site should be used as a showcase for good systems. That way, new users might see the site as being credible and useful.
For a vendor to get prominence on the home page we have 2 routes - pay for either of 2 advertising areas, or get onto one of the 3 ranking lists (most looked at, biggest winners)
I would like to get onto the biggest winners list, but on looking at most of the systems that populate the list, I wonder if I want to share their company. Indeed, when I look at the homepage I often see if any of the systems on the winners/losers list also appear on the looked at list. Nearly always they are not getting looked at in detail - people must be holding the cursor over the system title, seeing an equity curve that offers ruination along the way and probably concluding that C2 is not a professional site. What a waste of prime web space!
Just strikes me that an area of half of the C2 homepage could be put to better use and should pull in more users. It should be a showcase for the best, and not the domain of ‘lemons’ like Ross says.
My own suggestion as to how to create a more useful list would be to exclude systems which have suffered a large drawdown of more than say 30%. (why feature wealth destruction on your homepage?).
For people like MK who are curious about the fortunes of the more volatile systems, there should be a new category placed in the 1-click section.
Exactly! Mk usually has good replies. But this one leaves me scratching my head as to why the views of customers is uninteresting to him. This has been brought up before, and left basically unaddressed.
This was a very good request.
"Personally, I’m not very interested in which systems have gained or lost in the past week (or the last 2 days). "
Then get rid of the feature. But this request/comment applied to all time periods.
"Well, part of it … are just good fun. But I think it is interesting to see which systems are doing well recently. The point of the list isn’t to show overall good systems, or to recommend systems you should trade. The point of the list is to call attention to systems that you may have completely overlooked for whatever reason. That’s why we don’t do any filtering. "
Not to us. As Nigel said, this is valuable real estate to you AND to us.
"I’m always interested in a system that was a dog for 6 months and then suddenly started doing well. I ask myself: Why is this system suddenly doing better? What kind of strategy does it employ? Is this strategy better suited to today’s markets? "
Nobody else seems to share this view. A system that ran itself way into negative area is wasting your reader’s time.
Nobody else seems to share this view. A system that ran itself way into negative area is wasting your reader's time.
Ross, that people don't disagree with your view publically doesn't mean that they agree with you. I found it futile to disagree and reason with you, so I am not wasting my time anymore. I know for a fact there are other people who feel the same way. Just because two people agree with you, doesn't mean everyone does.
If you maybe spend a little less time pointing out faults in everything around you, you might have noticed that your own website has been hacked at least a week ago.
Fanus,
I’m not interested in who agrees with me or who doesn’t, per se, but I was waiting for a cogent reply to my question concerning why valuable home-page space is given over to various flaky systems.
It doesnt seem to make sense to new vistors to the site, who will probably think that flaky systems is all that C2 is about. It does a dis-service to vendors out there like myself who are trying to build a reliable track record and attract subscribers. It also doesnt make much sense from a business point of view to waste valuable web space in this manner.
I await MK’s reply…
Here is my viewpoint. This is MK’s site and business. If he want to use half the screen for a picture of a pink elephant, then this is his choice. If I don’t like what he does with the site, then I leave and find something better. Simple as that.
I for one do find these lists interesting. In general, I will not select systems from these lists to trade, but every once in a while, I do see a few which looks interesting.
I cannot speak for how much business sense that makes to use screen space for this, as I have never try to run a website like this. I assume you did?
- Fanus
Nigel: For now, I have determined that this is an interesting use of the screen real estate. Part of my motivation is to make sure that systems that you perhaps haven’t seen before get noticed every now and then. If you find the systems on the list without value, then I understand.
Your feedback has been noted, and is greatly appreciated.
Matthew
"If I don’t like what he does with the site, then I leave and find something better. Simple as that."
Love it or leave it…we heard that one circa 1971 for anyone who didn’t
agree with Tricky Dicky.
> Your feedback has been noted, and is greatly appreciated.
And that’s an attitude I appreciate! Thank you MK!
If you maybe spend a little less time pointing out faults in everything around you, you might have noticed that your own website has been hacked at least a week ago.
LOL - good catch.
http://futures-systems.com/
"Hacked By Crackers_Child
NefretiM hErkeZe"
