Why did you make that trades if you knew in advance that they are stupid etc?
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Itâs not really true that Zip4x was profitable for years before his latest drawdown. If you go through his trade details earlier on youâll see multiple instances of trades with over 100% DD (yes, thatâs a total blow out). On average there was one about every year. But C2 isnât a real brokerage and doesnât margin call him or otherwise close his account, so he just keeps paper trading until the account is at new highs and then he draws in subscribers willing to pay $600 a month for another ride down again. Take a look, heâs still trading back up right now. Give him another 6-9 months and people will subscribing again saying how they know itâs risky but it has such a long track record and makes so much money. Theyâre sure they can get enough $$ out before the big DD⌠and it will probably end up badly for them just like last time, and the time before, and the time before.
If thatâs what people want, obviously people exist who will give it to them. Though seriously casinos can return hundreds of % too, and probably with better odds. And at least there you get free drinks.
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People think 20% DD is still a good strategy.
But wait, are you sure it will be only 20% DD? Give me the reasons it will be only 20% DD.
He holds losing position and do not want to cut. So if market goes all the way down, he will be all the way to bankruptcy.
There will not be only 20% DD, there will be 60% DD, 80%DD, and 100% DD.
If he trades the way of adding on losing positions, there always will be a time to see bankrupcy.
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Because I really wanted a break like many of us here and a free riding system lol It wasnât all that smart on my part as well to make that trade, but I followed blindly.
Well said, my friend.
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Apparently new system in place. Anyone who follows it from this point on does it purely on trust, faith, hope (to put it gently).
It will be hard to justify any complaints.
I totally agree with GalBarak and this is my real problem with the system. I understand (and allocate $$ accordingly) that 20% DD happens on Forex. I donât panic just by seeing it. I do panic when I see the developer himself panics as obviously he does.
So what we have now a new system; all the track record, statistics, etc that we used (for better or worse) to decide to subscribe are down the drain. What we have is a brand new system from a developer who panicked when his system experienced a moderate DD; who developed and released a brand new system in 24 hours; which brand new system âpromisesâ even bigger DD-s. I donât know, man.
[I still believe, as I keep saying, that C2 should allow to write reviews when the subscribers decide and not when C2 decides.]
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Exactly, strong traders prevail! Not flail.
All I want to say is,I have never seen a trader go broke who cut his losses more times short for the times heâs down, as well as let his winners ride and cut those responsibly too. The trader at hand isnât a bad trader, he really isnât, but, i can nitpick a few entries here and there of his, but that damn draw down is anything that will wipe his credibility in the trading community right away. It makes you look like an idiot who doesnât know what he is doing. I understand you want to allow for possible move backs to hedge expectations for subscribers and such, but seriously, 600-800 to make 20-30 pips? come on. Be responsible people. How about this simple equation. 20-50 pips drawdown to make 80-100 pips? Huh? Why donât we do it that way. Shit I think I am going to make my system go live again, I am sure Mr. Klein would appreciate it and how well i execute R/R.
To answer the critics, THE ONLY REASON WHY I accepted to trade into this Hocuspocus Profitâs system was because I wanted to go into lazy mode because of my own life situations and didnât want to really trade full time HOPING that I would get on an auto trader with a responsible trader who took wins gracefully and cut losses reasonably with good ENTRY accuracy so that I can work on other things I enjoy doing in life, trading not being one lol
I want to keep a log here for people. ConSwerve profit has entered 2 more shorts in USD/JPY (only mentioning it for one example), as the market is rising up with massive bullish strength.
People, get real, get out of the system before you lose your money! Telling you, warning you, being friendly here 
Lost too much money on this site to idiots and scam artists.
Yikes trying to trade against the trend! Always hopes for a bounce to get out with small profit
He wrote in his system broadcast " The new EA does have the possibility of opening many tradesâŚin watching itâs performance (>5000 pips since Dec) it does grind the profits out without changing lot sizes (no Martingale)." It just Martingaled on the first .
At first the initial position was at a profit of 40 pips for a long time. USD/JPY was not going down more than 110.20. The trade was not closed for a profit with signs of trend reversal. Then when it went into losses the adding to losers started.
Matt/Collective2 doesnât screen systems at all. The whole point of this site is it gives you the power to screen and evaluate systems and their developers yourself. Itâs incredibly powerful and transparent, but the down side is the responsibility rests on you.
Whatever youâre asking Matt to do, just do it yourself. Thatâs how this works. If you want systems with verified trading results, C2 does thatâyou just WAIT for as long as you want the trading results to be verified before you subscribe. If you want 2 years of trading results (which isnât a bad idea), wait until a system has 2 years of trading results. You can even see actual brokerage fills for subscribers once the system gets subscribers. If you want questionnaires filled out by system devs, send questions to the developers yourself. Nobody else knows what you want to ask.
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Greed>Competence goes for many people out here, clearly not you, but me included as many. Unfortunately, there will always be trumpsters and hucksters who come out of the wood work and us goat fall for.
The problem is that what we are seeing now is a completely rational business decision on his part. I have seen this before (not on C2) with system vendors.
The logic is:
The system is in red and way diverged from its attractive equity curve. Most of the subscribers will leave if it doesnât recover quickly. Rational subscribers may stay, but this is not the bulk of the business. And during a DD he canât possibly raise subscription price.
Given this he doesnât lose anything if he plays double or nothing (with our money.) If he loses, the subscriber base leaves in one week, instead of two. If he wins (a 10:1 chance, doesnât matter), he is a hero and saved the day.
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Iâve made a number of bad subscriptions here myself. But I accept the results, see what I can learn from it, and move on. I donât want Matt or anyone else âprotectingâ me as I know it would mean the C2 service would degrade, perhaps significantly. The whole finance industry in the US is regulated to the point where nobody can say or do hardly anything anymore, all because people donât want to accept responsibility for their own actions.
C2 is one of the few places where someone who isnât an Accredited Investor can actually get access to hedge fund-like strategies. The fact C2 exists at all is due to a small exception in the regulations and every year I wonder if this is the year someone will start complaining to the wrong people and cause the exception to be closed.
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I think validating his irresponsible trading style for us is doing us a disservice. Personally
I hear you from a softer side, because I too want to gamble and put my money at risk to see better greater returns, but that just isnât happening. I am sure if you had an independent study of all the users who used C2 in aggregate, the number will be quite low of how many achieved greater financial success from it. Sorry, I know it sounds great in theory and the site is beautiful, (Thanks Matthew Klein) but the numbers do lie. I donât know if itâs C2âs error in reporting (which sometimes it is, I know this certainly) or⌠traders realize the success of the system isnât indicative of their own success and may not do as well even auto trading it because of so many other factors that canât be controlled (Which Iâm sure Matthew tries for)
I like the site too, but there are a lot of wild west hucksters who practice voodoo on here and I am not kidding, beware. I have been through the pits, my man.
and to add: I was the most risk controlled trader through most if not all these systems I used. However the problem lied in the drawdowns these traders were willing to take and the very questionable entries these system providers made at times I would blow my mind over. Many agreed. I showed them the blotter of the trade logs and fellow traders too said, âWhat are these system providers doing!??!?!â like in a crazy bewildered voice tone.
I suggest self regulation is not good enough. Sorry
Everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions, period. Everything else is ego-protection-driven nonsense. If you are greedy, or uneducated, or impatient, or scared, or lazy, you are going to get smacked, it isnât anyone elseâs fault. It is the way it is in the market and it is the way it is on model (and even hedge fund) selection.
Are there predatory model developers preying on noobs and gamblers? YES. In fact some of the highly regarded models here are also just that, people just choose to ignore the risks (until they happen) or are ignorant to those risks. The people selling naked options on 4x+ leverage (including a very popular âlonger termâ modelâŚ), the people shorting vol products with no tail hedge, the people trading grid systems for forex, the people using martingale or semi-martingale money management strategies, the list goes on and on.
Many of us have pointed these out before in no uncertain terms on the forums, Alexander even made a honorable effort to codify strategy selection criteria. Some of us (myself included) even started our own models after seeing some bad behavior and figuring there should be viable alternatives that are of institutional quality made available to the community.
The bottom line is, new people who donât tread carefully will get hit, once they get hit there is a 3 pronged fork in the road:
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Quit.
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Get educated on strategy selection and get realistic about return/risk expectations, forget grail systems.
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Repeat the past and GAMBLE.
I and I think many others have sympathy for the noobs, and nothing but derision and antipathy for the gamblers. Many of us try to contribute some material to help newer people that isnât just self-serving for our models (and in many cases non-model-developers also contribute). âRegulatingâ isnât the way forward, if one wants regulated products it is time to asset allocate and leave the managed strategy world behind (I would include hedge funds and CTAs in this list too), the way forward is to take responsibility and educate oneself, it is your hard earned money at stake!
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I messaged him immediately after he cut loss on eurusd short, that he should not have captivated while he should look at how dx bottomed I also suggested him not to average down on 10pips. Now look at what heâs doing. He was âconservativeâ with 1 lot a time which was good and consistent. Then everything changed. He didnât respond to me either. I feel he simply behaved and traded like an amateur suddenly which is very bizarre.
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