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A Strategy for YM gambler got a margin call!


#1

What do you think about this screenshot? C2 had to liquidate his position as he never has a stoploss! Thanks to C2 he “only” had 30.94% drawdown on a single trade!
For his other 2 systems he was flat on February 5th.
It is just luck that he did not lose millions of dollars for C2 autotraders on his other 2 systems had he been in a position on February 5th.

This is the system link for the gambling system:


#2

Can you go into a bit more detail what has happened here? I see in your screenshot it looks like a margin call was generated (Feb 6?)

It was at a 30% drawdown at that time?

However when you look at the actual system today I am only seeing C2 registering a loss on that day $2500?

If there was a drawdown of 30% on that day with a margin call and with a $20K trade going on, doesn’t that mean the loss should have been a heck of a lot higher than $2500?

Are you suggesting that C2 is not reporting some things correctly?

Can you get a “Margin Call” and not have to liquidate right away? Could he have recovered shortly after which is why only a $2500 loss?


#3

Think it has to do with Interactive broker rules, not with C2.
Since UDOW is 3X ETF; it is possible that IB has strict rules on leveraged ETF.
It depends on each broker.
Trade leader opened 228 shares of UDOW at price 101.78. That is 23.205 $ worth.
And account value was 18.300 $ at that moment. If he took like 170 shares, no margin call would be issued.

On futures it would really end bad.
But on UDOW he has more limited possible loss.
I agree that is really big DD.
But he recovered in next 2 trades, and made profit.


#4

What I’d be conserned with is that he was able to sucker you and others into a system that simply makes trades for the sake of making trades, constantly selling and buying in at a higher price. And in a bear market, what will he do, sit it out for 2 years? Virtually every long only strategy will collapse since leaders will feel the need to trade, and subs won’t pay for dormant systems that don’t.


#5

If you had looked closer at his two other systems before posting false statements you would have seen that he actually was in the market and luckily he did not have any stops in place - for some systems like this it is better do not have stops - since on 2/6 there was a huge down spike in the premarket hours, but as it is often the case in such situations the market bounced back quickly, remember the flash crash? With a stop loss in such a fast moving market you probably would be stopped out at the very bottom and probably miss much of the rebound. On 2/8 there was a similar drawdown but the system recovered in just 6 days. This is another thing I like very much about his systems, it usually recovers quickly. Please do your homework before you are putting down other systems. As far as I know, his two future systems, since he came to C2, have beaten any other system on C2. In addition, he has a stellar 17 year track record of actual trading, not just back testing - did you miss to check his site Dagian.com? And if you go there don’t miss to check his performance during the financial crisis. What is your track record over the last 17 years?


#6

@KarlA I just pointed out the fact the he received a margin call, yes I know he gambled without a stoploss on the other system which you seem to be a fan of. Have fun trading without a stoploss then. If he actually traded in the last 17 years then HE SHOULD KNOW THE BASIC RULE IN FUTURES TRADING TO ALWAYS USE A STOPLOSS. Guck luck gambling to you. But to all others I recommend keeping to basic rules in futures trading! 30% drawdown on a trade, you are a joke.


#7

You did not answer my question: What is your track record? Do you have any? And as I said before, you did not check the facts before putting other systems down. That is reckless behavior! Your system is very young and there is no saying yet if it will survive or not. It had a lucky beginning but the fact that you promote it so heavily makes me suspicious.

As a disclosure, I subscribed to your system just to see if a system which violates one of my criteria, that is low win ratio but high avg. profit to avg. loss ratio, can survive in the long run. Maybe the ratios will improve in the future otherwise I am not too optimistic.


#8

@KarlA Yes, I do. Reckless behaviour is defending the gambling mentality. I have overlooked one minor detail and now you are trying to attack me in public. This is disgusting. So leave me alone.


#9

What is disgusting is that you attack one of the best systems on C2 without checking the facts. BTW, where is your track record? Talk is cheap.


#10

I have not attacked it I have just pointed out a fact about the margin call!!! Are you too stupid to understand it? LEAVE ME ALONE, you liar.
I do have a track record and I have shared it with some people who have asked for it. But not after harassing me in public.


#11

I dont use Udow trend signals, however, I am not sure what is your intention to use a title YM gambler, it seems this title is really misleading after I cross check from the track record thats model. Every model has a different approach / algo / discretionary to react in the market. His model took a different approach from your model, I do not think you should say this is a gambler.

Even though if you stick with your opinion this system is a gambler, this model is using 300% TOS, 500% TOS A Strategy for YM and 300% TOS 3FOLD while your model has not used TOS yet. I am sure when you register your model become TOS, your model is worth it to put in watch list. Your model is starting $8k, use YM contract and traded overnight. From risk management perspective and if you use at IB, You will counter many obstacles in IB. Fortunately, most clients have more funds than $8k, so they do not really experience the issue.

I get it why you want use small amount in you model because you want to impress many people if they subscribe your model with small amount, they can get high return, however in the real world n if you want to survive in this investment industry, you must not over leverage.

Please respect other developers and not to talk other systems down. He is also not promoting his system aggressively and also come to this forum to defend his model. He just focus on his performance n manage his trades. People can see which model is worth it to be invest and also personal behavior.

I will suggest, you put your energy, just focus on your performance n use real money. Do not talk bad other strategy.


#12

@sam_w Can I not point out a fact that a trader does not keep the basic rule in trading and a margin call generated by C2 closed his position?
I am talking about facts, there is nothing subjective. I thought that C2 is used by professional traders as well. And this post was for those professional traders some of whom I have got to know a little bit here and like them very much. I also respect their trading. Some of them are really talented traders. I know how much hard work goes into becoming finally profitable in trading and if you are just caught off guard for one second without a stoploss then your trading career may be over.
But if someone does not keep basic rules in futures trading, it really annoys me.
This post is not about my system, am I not allowed to post here facts because I am also a trade leader?
What if I am concerned about subs’ hard-earned cash and want to provide them with info so that they could make their own decisions? Is this a problem? You did not understand the purpose of this post, now I hope you do.
I am a member of C2 since 2013 so I have not just signed up yesterday and posted stupid info.

I do hope this post is beneficial for those that could be affected by its trading results. If gambler guy gets lucky and survives and makes money, it does not bother me. I would rather him succeed than lose subs’ money. But if the excrement hits the fan,that would be really in my face! (No pun intended).


#13

@sam_w " “use real money”. You have no idea whether I use real money or not. But you falsely and with bad intent tell me to use real money. Well, guess what I do use real money!
Just because someone is not TOS they may still use real money. First ask if you don’t know something instead of posting false info publicly, thank you.


#14

You shouldn’t take a service track record at face value after all the record hasn’t been independently verified.


#15

I agree. Futures could have ended very bad.

But UDow shares as well.
In the next trade he used 410 shares, (double leverage)
So the loss could have been more than the investment.

Best if subscribers adapt the shares manually to the own account size.
This trader is a little bit unpredictable.


#16

Agreed, the developer told me that the ‘track records’ on the website do not include any fees, i.e., slippage, bid-ask spread, trade commissions


#17

This is why he came to C2 to show that his live trading performance is pretty close to his track record shown on his web site over the last 17 years. He must be pretty confident about his model otherwise he would not trade one of his futures system at 500% TOS and the other one at 300%. Compare this to some people here who try to promote their own system by badmouthing his, who claim they have a track record but refuse to provide it and claim to trade their own system but refuse to get TOS certified.


#18

@KarlA

I have not promoted my system on this post. STOP LYING!!! I have shared facts about this gambling system. It is a fact that a trading strategy without a stoploss can be considered gambling. I have shared this fact. Stop trolling this post!


#19

@CsabaBiro11 in your original post there is nothing confirming that this is a gambling system, even no definition what system should be considered as gambling, except your assumptions about luck and C2 generated margin call notice. Your behavior as a trade leader is inappropriate. Please stop it.


#20

You don’t seem to understand that certain systems are better traded without stops. If there is a sharp spike down your stops in a fast moving market are useless, you most likely get filled at the very bottom, far away from your posted stop, and you will miss the rebound which usually follows.

There are other things you don’t seem to understand, in another thread you accused C2 to “fraudulently” report the percentage gain of the system A Strategy for YM because you did not know the difference between Cumulative Returns and Compound Returns until CoreyR had to explain it to you even though you pride yourself to have been with C2 since 2013.

The other 4 systems you created since 2013 apparently all failed, maybe you can explain how your present Chubs system differs from your previous three failed Chubs systems.

Most of all, talk is cheap. You claim to have a track record but refuse to provide it, you claim to trade the system yourself but refuse to get TOS certified. If you just did those two things your credibility would improve dramatically.