The opinions expressed in these forums do not represent those of C2, and any discussion of profit/loss
is not indicative of future performance or success.
There is a substantial risk of loss in trading. You should therefore carefully consider
whether such trading is suitable for you in light of your financial condition. You should read,
understand, and consider the Risk Disclosure Statement that is provided by your broker
before you consider trading. Most people who trade lose money.
Anyone ever hear of or create a mechanism by which, whatever signal you’re subscribed strat sends, you execute the opposite order?
Strat goes long and stops out, you go short and take profit! And vice-versa!
There seem to be WAY more strats here (or anywhere else) that lose money pretty consistently, with the the occasional short profitable streak. And as many have pointed out, VERY few strats make money over the long haul.
And after dumping -$30K auto-trading that flaming turd ES NQ Day Trades for a month, as it continues to sh!t the bed (fortunately NOT still auto-trading, as it’s now about -$40K, and just now -$3300 more in the time it takes me to write this!), I thought man, I’d be killing it if I was placing the opposite trades!
I’m sure there’s a flaw in my (slightly tongue-in-cheek) idea… Why not follow a losing strat (there’s certainly enough of those, and VERY easy to create) and place the opposite trades?
Funny you mention this—it actually takes me back! Way back in the late 90s, I was working at a brokerage in Chicago, and we had this one unforgettable client, a wealthy guy from Seattle named Dave. Hard to believe how vividly I remember this! Dave had a knack (if you can call it that) for losing about a million dollars every few months day-trading the Big S&P futures contract, which was $500 a point back then.
What’s wild is I’ve known a couple of people who did exactly what you’re describing. They’d take the opposite side, almost as if the market itself was setting them up. Honestly, it’s kind of what the market seems to do to all of us at some point, right? Fading our moves just when we think we’ve got it figured out!
This idea (go long when the trade leader goes short and vice versa) is not new here, on C2.
Unfortunately, it is very hard to implement, because you may still incur substantial financial damages if the system manager makes a killing before going bankrupt.
Legendary trader Jesse Livermore used to do that a lot.
In fact he was an expert in that field, fading whatever stock market (or commodity market) tip or rumor he heard.
Your idea takes me back 14 years on Collective2 when ETF Timer was in a drawdown and I received a critical review back then that proposed doing exactly what you mentioned here.
Here’s the review I copied from 12/21/2010:
“12/21/2010 a subscriber
Sorry to say, but this system does not work anymore. If you take the signals as contrarian and do the opposite of what he recommends, then you make money, otherwise, you lose.
Too bad, another system gone bust.”
Since that review, ETF Timer has gained about 230%! I hope the reviewer didn’t actually short it back then! LOL
If someone trades through Interactive Brokers, you could program a small tool. You get the autotrade signal from C2, the trade is entered into IB, then the little tool recognizes that it is a trade from C2 and reverses the trade. Of course, the tool must always run together with the TWS (works via a VPS). Additionally, it would cost double fees and the trade from Trade Leader would also be open for a short period of time.
Alternatively, C2 would have to offer web sockets in their API. There you can join as a subscriber and the web socket always delivers something when a trade is entered into.
I have also developed a few systems that had poor performance. If I wanted to take the trades in exactly the opposite way, I would have a problem.
A take profit limit order becomes a stop order. With a limit order I get 100% “my” price. With a stop order I get the “next” price, wherever that is.
This guy does trade battles vs gurus. He signs up for their signals and reverses the trades. It can be profitable but at a reduced gain. Check his channel for more videos.
