What kind of limits are there?
I’ve noticed you can sign up as a corp, so from what I can see that in effect, you can have an unlimited amount of systems.
You do have to pay a C2 listing fee for each system, so I would guess it to be unlimited, unless Matt’s C2 company account has a maximum deposit limit.
but there is a limit on trial systems (< 5 trades)
Tim - I know of one person with 37 systems, and at least two people with more than 20 systems (21 and 22). Numerous people have more than 10.
There is nothing inherently wrong with having multiple systems, although it can indicate that someone keeps trying things until they find something that “sticks.” This is not the only reason for multiple systems, though. Some people provide similar, but different, systems to targeted to different groups (for example, maybe a system that trades stocks, and another that trades futures, that both key off the same signal).
I think as time goes on, you’ll see most developers get high numbers of systems. For example, I add a system every so often, since I am constantly developing systems (and hopefully getting better at it!).
I would beware of a developer that has multiple systems that crashed, since it might indicate a trading problem (position sizing, over-leverage, lack of an edge) that the developer will bring (eventually) to every system they create, UNLESS they learn and correct it. You can learn a lot by studying the good and bad history of a developer.
Kevin
Kevin,
If developing and testing new ideas, why not designate the method as a “test sytem” in C2. I don’t believe that shows up to other C2 members. I figure most developers won’t expose their system until it is production ready.
The “test” system wasn’t always an option, but it is now. I don’t know if a system specified as “test” in the beginning can ever be opened up.
I wish your statement " figure most developers won’t expose their system until it is production ready." was true, but many developers don’t. Some developers are in this to try to make a quick buck, and usually C2 exposes them fairly quickly.
Kevin
I have several signals in my history and am very grateful for it. Collective2 has been the trading devise that has taught me how to trade profitably. Had I not discovered Collective2 I am sure I would still be a small trader losing the money I was working overtime to get to trade with.
Every signal I have brought out has been a good learning experience for me. I have killed them for various reasons. Not all because they failed. My signal Ultimate Trader for example is a strong performer however just too volatile to trade comfortably.
The signal I just cancelled SMA the best signal I have created however it did not reflect how I am trading my own personal money. I use Collective2 to track my own trading and find it to be a great tool. I am trading my new signal Extreme Trader exactly how it is showing on C2 in one account and with higher leverage in another. I am trading UT2 with my Rydex IRA and have moved it 24% in the last 7 weeks.
So for me having multiple signals on C2 has been a Godsend. I recommend for everybody to put a signal on C2. The $98 listing fee for 6 months would be the smartest $98 you have ever spent.
Another great thing about C2 is the opportunity to help others. I have several clients that have been trading my IWM signal at SMA for almost a year now. The personal emails with their own spread sheets have allowed me an insight I would have never attained without them. I have a lot of subscribers that are smarter than me and I learn every day from them.
In summary the killed signals I have put on C2 have been a very productive and profitable experience for me. For many of my clients a very profitable experience also.
Rick Haines
Thanks Kevin. Awesome site, Collective2.
Couple of questions:
"You can learn a lot by studying the good and bad history of a developer. "
How do I do that exactly? Sometimes when people sign up as a corp, how do I cross reference against other corps that person might sign up as?
Is there a limit to the # of corps a person can sign up under?
Thanks again,
Tim.
Yes, a test system is a definite requirement!! We should have a flag - visible only to the developer.
Ouch, no edit. Make sure any history you show users though only starts from the time it’s visible to everyone, though.
Some of these questions are best answered by Matthew, the site owner. But from what I’ve seen in almost 4 years here, most developers stick to posting systems under one i.d. Some I know don’t. So usually, I’ll look for other systems with similar names, or oher systems with similar trading styles (this is tougher to do).
Ultimately, though, one could create multiple accounts and probably pretty easily avoid detection.
Kevin
Kevin,
My understanding is you designate your system as “Test” and you can learn all you wish from this test system. Potential subscribers would not have access. When you are ready to turn it into a production system, you remove the “test” designation and all your “test” history is deleted and you start from ground zero.
It seems to me that this is a nice part of C2 that is not used to it’s full potential.
While and C2 member can use this as they see fit. I would hope that any developer that is testing a system would either designate it as a C2 “Test” system or in some other way, inform potential subscribers of their intentions
Thanks for the explanation. I’m too used to seeing “production” systems become “test” systems when they crash. There are actually 17 systems named “test” out there! I’m not sure how many started out as test systems, but my guess is very few.
Not that I’m one to talk - I have “KJ Test 1” - but at least it had that name from the beginning…
Kevin
The word "test" should be disallowed in systems that are not. It is an attempt by some vendors to pretend that it always was a "test" system.
As for people who use multiple IDs, I am unsure that is much worse than someone having 20+ systems, most killed off. I judge every vendor as much by their failed systems as I do their active ones.
Hi Kevin,
One last thought on this subject.
For those interested, you can look at the "(View history)" link to see the system name history.
Example…
System developer xx (Private Msg)
(Last login to C2: 6/16/09 13:17)
The name of this system has been changed 3 times (View history)
Thanks to Mathew for providing the facility to keep things on the up and up.
Sorry, forgot this last tidbit.
The following is from C2
This is a list of the trading systems created by XXXXXX. You may find it useful to examine this list to see if the system vendor has created numerous systems, hoping to randomly “find” a good one. Of course, there’s nothing wrong with creating multiple systems – each with with different strategy, say, or each geared to different instruments – but it’s worth your looking into before you decide to subscribe.
Special note about “test systems”: Since March 13, 2006, Trading System Dashboard has given system vendors the opportunity to designate a system as a “test system” before publically posting trades. If you a see a system listed here that is less than 170 weeks old, then it was created after that date, and it did not begin life as a “test system.” (This is the case even if the vendor later changed the system name to “test” or something similar.) Note that this does not apply to any systems created before March 13, 2006. In other words, if the system is older than 170 weeks old, the vendor did not have the chance of designating a system as a special “test” system.
