Hello everyone,
I will make this short…
Stoplosses and limits do not work when the Market moves fast!!
The leverage size on C2 account is not adjustable!
You are not able to scalp the Market… because you cant see the prices that C2 has… which sometimes will deffer from real live Market prices by 2 to 7 pips!! (( after adding spreads)).
C2 is too slow to make you able to catch up with such fast moving Market… and pick the price that you want!!
Either all this get fixed … Or good luck with having a successful forex system on C2…
I am forex trader with over 8 years of tradig experience.
Cheers…
- Stops and limits work fine.
2) We don’t have rights to redistribute quotes, so we can’t print them real-time. But we use real-time quotes when processing fills.
3) If you need real-time quotes to “scalp” you can look at Interactive Brokers and see their forex quotes since that is currently what we use for hypothetical fills.
4) We don’t “differ from the market by 7 pips.” We use the same exact prices as IDEALPRO, which offers extremely tight spreads.
5) Although you may have 8 years of experience trading forex, I do remember your last trading system here on C2 blew up rather ignominiously. So perhaps you should wait another 8 years before rendering such broad (and erroneous) opinions.
- Stops and limits work fine.
2) We don’t have rights to redistribute quotes, so we can’t print them real-time. But we use real-time quotes when processing fills.
3) If you need real-time quotes to “scalp” you can look at Interactive Brokers and see their forex quotes since that is currently what we use for hypothetical fills.
4) We don’t “differ from the market by 7 pips.” We use the same exact prices as IDEALPRO, which offers extremely tight spreads.
Several things unclear in this note.
Not sure if you are asking this question as a subscriber or as a potential system vendor.
stoplosses & limits not working - do you mean through autotrading? Scalping systems are inherently difficult to implement. For one thing, you usually pay the same spreads/slippage & commissions as longer-term. Few C2 scalping systems seem to reliably enable sizable profits, especially if autotrading. Scalping systems are already recognized here as difficult to use through autotrading.
Fast markets hit everyone, regardless. The Realism Factor adjusts for systems that depend on hard-to-fill limits
What is meant by “leverage size not adjustable”? Vendors start with $100,000 and determine their own leveraging (Leveraging heavily or lightly is your choice. You don’t have to margin the whole $100K). For subscribers, generally C2 transmits vendor signals to you or your autotrader. It isn’t for “leveraging” or transmitting orders directly to brokers, unless your broker happens to have such an arrangement. Are you talking about autotrading software? Generally these DO allow leverage control. If you were more descriptive, it might be easier to dialogue.
Matthew…
Stops and limits do not work if you add them after sending your buy/sell siganl.
If you send the stop and limit along with the signal… then your good as long as the Market does not move against you so fast.
If you send it after sending the buy/sell signal… then good luck buddy.
Everyone has his own startgy… that needs a spacific leverage size… why do I have to trade based on someone else strategy?
The leverage must be adjustabe.
I got kicked out of soo many trades from the very top and bottom of the trading range. because of your Margine calls. (and I am talking about the very top and bottom… I get kicked out by one or two pips!!!)
The Web site is so slow that if the Market moves against you fast… then it will be impossible to get out!!
Especially when the Website gets stuck… which happens quet often.
You had all these problems a year ago… which screwed up my system… and now it did again.
I hope that you are aware of it now… and look forward for fixing it…
I am one of those vindors who got in with you when you first started your business… and told you that this is one of the best business ideas I ever seen.
I am just trying to show you that I am with you… and support you Matthew… and I am not here to start flames.
If you don’t get these problems fixed… then I garantee you there will never be any realistic successful system in forex on your website.
> If you send it after sending the buy/sell signal… then good luck buddy.
Everyone has his own startgy… that needs a spacific leverage size… why do I have to trade based on someone else strategy?
The leverage must be adjustabe. I got kicked out of soo many trades from the very top and bottom of the trading range. because of your Margine calls.
Looks like you are a victim! Slippage and margin calls! Ouch!
Otherwise, I bet you would be making big bucks:
Trades 22
Profitable 8
Losses 14
Win % 36.4%
Cumu $ ($77,187)
after typical commission n/a
Avg Win $20,056
Avg Loss $16,974
W:L Ratio 0.7:1
P/L per unit n/a
after typical commission n/a
Avg Trade Length 2.1 days
Annualized % -216.72% over 130 days
Sharpe Ratio -0.62
Max Drawdown 90.11% (20060403 to 20060528)
Subscriber Reviews
April 6, 2006
Reviewer: AutoTrader of system
In the month that I have been with the system (since it started), the system creator has managed to double his account and lose almost all of it again.
Was this review helpful? Very helpful Somewhat Not helpful
April 21, 2006
Reviewer: Subscriber to system
Where’s the money management? Where’s the technical analysis to go with the fundamental trades? Bad entry points, and holding on to losing trades WAY too long is just as bad as adding to them.
Was this review helpful? Very helpful Somewhat Not helpful
April 11, 2006
Reviewer: Subscriber to system
I recommend following this system just for the market insight. The reason the account has lost money is too much risk per trade. If you use your own money management with this system including setting your own stop losses and limiting each trade to 3% or so you might do well with this.
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April 11, 2006
Reviewer: Subscriber to system
Market insight! Don’t make me laugh. The system is 6 weeks and has only made 11 trades. A few of which were lucky. The final arbiter is the equity curve, max DD & W:L. Trade at your own peril!
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April 12, 2006
Reviewer: Subscriber to system
The first one was lucky .That’ s all .
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May 8, 2006
Reviewer: Subscriber to system
please stop getting a bad name by letting him stay here collective2
Noor:
What you are saying is nonsense:
1. Stops and limits work fine, regardless of whether you enter them when entering a trade, or subsequently.
2. You get margin calls because you tend to over-leverage your account and then make bad trades.
3. The only thing that “screwed up your system” was that your system tended to lose money.
4. If you have a specific example of C2 software not performing properly, by all means bring it to my attention. But, as I remember from our dealings in the past, you sometimes feel it’s C2’s fault when you make bad trades that lose lots of money.
Matthew
Upon further consideration, I realize my first post was a bit curt, and so allow me to be a bit more helpful.
You’re frustrated that C2 issued a margin call to you. You think you should be able to choose whatever leverage you want, since you are trading forex – and you feel you should not be forced to use C2’s 33:1 leverage rule.
C2 employs a strict leverage cap on forex trading for a couple of reasons. First, we want to allow fair comparisons between trading systems that trade various instruments. I have determined that 33:1 forex margin, while still very high, at least is similar to the margin available to a futures trader. (A stock system will of course be restricted to much lower leverage.)
But the main reason we restrict your leverage is this. If you are serious about being a trading system developer here on C2 – that is, if you treat what you are doing as a business that you must run responsibly and ethically, then you can’t willy nilly decide to use whatever leverage you happen to feel like, on any given day. The point to remember is that you may have people autotrading your system, and they rely on C2 to impose strict leverage/margin use caps on trading systems, so that they do not over-margin their real life trading account.
Of course you – or any of your autotrading customers – can use more leverage when autotrading your system via C2. Since you know C2 caps leverage at 33:1, you can simply set your scaling factor accordingly, based on your real life account size and C2’s hypothetical account size.
Your complaining about C2’s issuing a margin call to you indicates that perhaps you need to reconsider what you are trying to accomplish here on this site. If you really want to make a trading system that is useful for C2 customers, then you need to agree to stay within certain margin use. If you are unwilling to do that, or simply can’t control yourself, then you should reconsider the idea of selling a trading system to the public.
Sincerely,
Matthew
Amen
There are already enough systems that double in 2 weeks, give it all back, double again, and eventually wind up near $0.
Few subscribers are interested in gyrating equity curves. And as Sam demonstrated, the problem appears to be the system, not C2. Changing leverage won’t fix these problems, it will only magnify it.
Ok Matthew…
I said before… I trust you… and I am sure that you know what your doing, so, will wait for a few couple of months to achieve the capital that I am looking for to start my real money manegment stratgy…
And will make my C2 records as a prove to everyone that your leverege rules is not necessery in the forex market.
I will pass on the leverage issue…
The Stoploss and limit orders do not work… Go try them if you want… send a sell signal… then wait for 10 minutes and send a stoploss for your trade… Not only Matthew, I want everyone to try that … to show you all that I know what I am talking about!!
The reason why I lost this time is because the stoploss and limit orders do not work… So , I have to leave everything the way it is… but if the Market moves against me when I am not there… then I go down big time…
I have made this previous system free for subscribers just to send them my written fundamental analysis to demonstrate my trading experience… Because I knew that something might show up in C2 and screw up everything same as it did last time!
Regarding the interactive broker rates… you might be right about having the same rates as them, but you still cant get the price your looking for because the website is too slow… I click on the mouse when the price is at 34, and C2 catches it at 41 or even more.
there are two issues left other than the leverage Matthew… And I am sure that you can fix them, you are a smart person Matthew.
1. Stoploss/Limit orders.
2. Slow website.
Again, I am not here to start a flame war… I will leave now, and I am really hoping that when I come back next time to get into business with you, that you will have all these problems fixed.
Take care Matthew.
What a load of nonsense.
I am in my 13th Month of trading and I have not had any significant problems.
The prices I get through C2 are very close to the market, and if the odd pt makes a difference to a system, then it is probably not possible to trade for subscribers. (anyway, sometimes the difference is in my favour)
A couple of times, I have had completely wrong fills, but Matthew will always correct these.
The website is normally fast and accurate. Sure there are rare occasions when it is a bit slow, but what website isn’t. (Although C2 gets better every month)
As for margin: Anyone trading at higher margin than C2 allows is insane and no subscriber in their right mind would follow them.
Keep up the good work matthew, and don’t worry about those that talk this rubbish!
I agree with most of what you say, Noor. I don’t have extensive experience with C2’s stop and limit orders, because I use Market orders exclusively. Some say it is impossible to make a profit that way. I hope I can prove them wrong.
Also, changing the very low leverage for the forex market as it is now at C2 to the normal leverage (100:1) would favor newer forex systems at the expense of the older systems. Unfortunately, we have to live with it.
Ever considered offering a system using only market orders at C2? Just a suggestion. I’m sure you are capable of creating a winning system as in past that I have often noted, you started with one, but maintaining it might be a problem with a system that depends on stop/limit orders in a fast market (I assume since you trade on fundamentals, you wait for the news to come out and ofcourse the market moves fast on news).
All the best with your real-money trading in your real account because that is what establishes your “track record.”
> Also, changing the very low leverage for the forex market as it is now at C2 to the normal leverage (100:1) would favor newer forex systems at the expense of the older systems. Unfortunately, we have to live with it.
Yes, you too are a victim of this overly conservative leverage. Your
customers have been limited to only 1.5 million in drawdowns
in the last few months. I can see why you would demand higher
leverage. This is very unfair to you and your customers. Exactly,
as you put it, like being a POW.
Please set Pal free and allow him greater leverage. Oh, this is a travesty
of justice! Yes Pal, you and Noor are birds of a feather and share a similar talent: the one month $200K DD. Matthew, you need to let these birds be free. All your subscribers can afford $200K DD’s per month, so jack up the leverage
A low leverage works for you and against you… I am not here to argue about that…
What really concerns me … is that it is really impossible to trade forex on C2.
Also, Matthew said that if I have any technical problems I should bring it to his attention and contact him… But I really cant do that everyday… I get problems almost everyday.
Stoploss and limit orders work fine if you send them along with the first signal of the trade… otherwise, they wont work.
I work on high speed internet… and I am sure that the Website is too slow… which can effect your trading in not only getting bad prices, but also other stuff… Lets say the Market is moving started spike towards your stoploss, the slow website will make it impossible sometimes to delete your stoploss or limit order.
I had the market moving fast towards my stoploss then hit it and move back in my direction… some of you might say the why dont you get into the same trade again… well, the website is too slow that when it gets you in… it will be too late on the move… really late. That happened to me so many times!!
I think Forex system vendors should be able to access some special page for them, that makes their work faster.
For those who say that if your system is that fast… then subscribers cant trade it… That is not an issue for me, I ALWAYS send them the trading plan ahead of the signal.
This is my last reply… I guess what I am looking for cant get any clearer.
All best to you all…
perhaps if you traded on a longer time scale, and didn’t try to “scalp” it wouldn’t be as serious an issue. Scalping systems are hard to trade for many reasons. Autotrading, spread/slippage, costs of doing business. It is hard enough to do for yourself, without trying to also get subscribers on board.
“A low leverage works for you and against you” - in reality it rarely works against you. Most systems I see use too much leverage. Many vendors don’t really demonstrate the ability to produce higher unit returns at the higher levels. So leverage just becomes a way to try and fatten the bottom line. Are we here to jazz up the equity curve or stay in for the long haul? “Sell down to the sleeping level” is a wise statement.
>perhaps if you traded on a longer time scale, and didn’t try to “scalp” it wouldn’t be as serious an issue. Scalping systems are hard to trade for many reasons.
Not really a scalping issue…on average 48 hours + to get those stops in:
Avg Trade Length 2.1 days
Annualized % -216.72% over 130 days
>I had the market moving fast towards my stoploss then hit it and move back in my direction… some of you might say the why dont you get into the same trade again… well, the website is too slow that when it gets you in… it will be too late on the move… really late. That happened to me so many times!!
So you are saying your Avg Loss $16,974 is mostly just slippage from
the site being slow?
> I think Forex system vendors should be able to access some special page for them, that makes their work faster.
I think Emini traders should have the "special page for them, that makes their work faster". Why favor the Forex?
I trade the 15 min charts and above … trades take me from 4 days to 15 min to get them done.
My loss… some came from me… and C2 boosted it!
Please try understand me… I am not talking about favoring one market over another…
Try to open the forex charts… and watch how fast the Market moves during the US session… and you will know exactly what I am talking about.
Try your self seding a sell or buy signal in Forex… then wait for couple of minutes , then send your stoploss and limit… and check your self if they work or not.
>A low leverage works for you and against you… I am not here to argue about that…
I agree. I am not here to argue about that either. Most of the recent drawdowns people are talking about occurred in my futures trades, not forex (because of an error in my position sizing algorithm for my QG futures trade which I have corrected since then). Higher (but entirely normal) leverage and hence higher profits in my forex trades would’ve reduced it. Forex needs the leverage, because forex markets does not move much unlike futures or stocks which can move 20% in a few days compared to 1-3% in forex.
ps: I mean, reduced the overall portfolio (which included stocks, futures, options and forex positions) drawdown.
