Moving some of the Interactive Brokers (IB) discussion off of Rene’s Topaz forum, from here: http://www.collective2.com/cgi-perl/board.mpl?want=listmsgs&boardid=50602253&threadhilite=9276&displayblock=
(If that link works).
Just a small (and hopefully obvious) disclaimer that I don’t represent IB or any Gen1 software; just sharing some of my setup experience gained after many chats with IB support and emails to TB. Anyone who has experience with IB, TradeBullet, Trader68, etc is welcome to add your two cents.
Christina
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Subject: Interactive Brokers vs. OptionsXpress
Posted by: Richard Schwartz
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When: 3/15/11 (19:57)
In response to post by Christina S of 3/14/11 (12:03)
Hi Richard,
Here goes:
Not sure about the sleep problems as I have no experience w/windows 7. My brother just had issues with UAC in Windows 7 so double check the www.tradebullet.com/install/support page…
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Whew is right. You are awesome. Got everything cleared out and started over.
So I should be able to create a broker account and have a single sub. Are you able to make adjustments from the Master webtrader from a remote location?
Lastly, I’m setting up the orders under the options tab of TradeBullet. What settings are recommended for Topaz under the following:
MIT: Convert Limit orders to market if touched after __?
The only other obvious ones I have checked are:
Enable Auto Trade when start
Allow multiple system on the same stock
Duplicate orders–keep only latest
Send orders conditional on cancel.
Anything else I should know on the Collective2 tab or End of Day?
Should be there after this.
Thanks and have a great evening!
Richard
Hi Richard,
Sorry, I could have answered this last night: those TB settings look correct to me for C2 purposes.
The MIT switch is something I’ve been a little unclear on, because I think it is somewhat redundant to the C2 tab’s “convert limits to market when C2 reports a fill.” The difference being that the “convert limits” feature, I assume, can only work when C2 knows you have the signal, whereas maybe MIT checks the market for any limit order you manually input, etc. (I think.) Maybe someone who knows distinction can provide input.
Regardless, as Karl says, for every user that likes the convert limits feature, there’s someone else who has problems. It depends on the system and the slippage it might cause.
For Topaz, check Rene’s FAQs on his website, as I think his specific recommendation is that it’s preferable to miss the trade, or manually set a slightly higher limit later on. After seeing the market for the last few days, I think I can understand that logic!
Christina
Subject: Interactive Brokers vs. OptionsXpress
Posted by: dan james
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When: 3/15/11 (20:00)
In response to post by Christina S of 3/14/11 (12:03)
Hi Richard,
Here goes:
Not sure about the sleep problems as I have no experience w/windows 7. My brother just had issues with UAC in Windows 7 so double check the www.tradebullet.com/install/support page…
See entire
Hi Christina–
You provided a lot of good information for Richard and I’m hoping you will have the time to answer a few follow-up questions. I have yet to try systems trading through C2 but am intrigued by the idea(and the posted returns) and am looking for a similar setup to what you described in the previous post. I didn’t see a place to send a private message so it’s going up on the board.
When you referenced creating a ‘broker account (non trading F account)’ are you referencing the ‘Institutional Proprietary Trading Group’( http://institutions.interactivebrokers.com/en/accounts/institutions/institutionalMain.php?ib_entity=inst )? It looks like there is the master account where funds are transferred into/out-of IB and then sub accounts can be created and allocated a % of the funds. Is there any additional cost to create this type of account? Is the general thought to keep 1 system for each account and manage the allocations from the supervisory account?
When you use Trade Bullet are you using the ‘Ultra2’ edition ( http://www.tradebullet.com/purchase/ ) to trade on these separate accounts? I’m assuming that the ‘Ultra’ version won’t work because it would view each of these IB accounts as being separate. Is this correct? From what I read it seems as though the actual allocation is done via the automation tool(Trade Bullet), meaning I can setup to use either a percentage of the account or an amount of funds on a particular system. Am I interpreting this correctly? If I get the multiple accounts setup in the manner you’ve describe this should be a moot point as each account will be 100% allocated to 1 system.
How much are the IB commissions each month(min-max or average)? The posted returns appear very lucrative but it appears it is being done through many transactions.
Any other suggestions you can offer as I cross into a new frontier would be helpful as I’d like to avoid saying, “If only I knew what I know now – I would’ve done things differently”.
Thanks in advance for the responses,
–Dan
Hi Dan,
Per my response last night, no need to jump through all of those hoops with IB for the Master/Subs. Just go to open a single account and select 'Friends and Family.'
Re: TradeBullet version, nope, no need for the Ultra 2 version or the replicator. I laugh because I made that mistake and bought it and then had to ask TB to let me undo it once I got a clue. (No problems with that). TradeBullet easily allows you to run multiple instances of TB on a single computer, which will in turn run multiple instances of TWS. There’s a bit of configuration involved, but it’s easy. Francis at TB will give you instructions.
What TB will NOT do is log into the IB master account and trade into multiple IB accounts through a single TB instance. You need the 1-1 TB-TWS correlation.
So no, you don’t need to worry about allocations within TB or TWS.
IB commissions on securities (bundled pricing) are so low that they’re hardly worth talking about compared to other brokers. Seriously. It’s true that IB frequently breaks orders up, but at $1 per trade for those smaller orders, you don’t think about it. Commission increases based on the number of shares, but if you’re not trading high enough to need the unbundled pricing (VERY high volume), commissions are $1-5 on average. No idea how many shares you’d trade, but yes, IB is truly a discount broker. While also being reliable. Hence my stubborness in sticking with it despite the Gen1-induced learning curve. (Matt’s Gen3 announcement today is very welcome.)
Think that’s about it. Nothing else I can think of in terms of “knowing now” comes to mind at the moment!
Ta for now,
Christina
Just a remark about this one:
trading high enough to need the unbundled pricing
With a system like Topaz you have mostly limit orders. In this case unbundeled pricing is favourable even for smaller accounts.
Wow, really, Rene? Why is that? I just remember IB quoting me a really high number (in the millions, or something) to benefit from unbundled, so I never thought to question. Is it something about limit orders in particular?
(At least it’s an easy change to make at anytime in Acct Mgmt, Pricing Structure.)
Thanks,
Christina
Hi Christina,
they obviously now call it "Cost Plus"
the relavent IB page is: http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/p.php?f=commission
If you have a small account (<300k shares per month)
and you use SMART routing then for most Topaz orders
(Limit orders, add liquidity) you pay:
IB Fees: $ 0.0035 per share
NASDAQ Fees: $ -0.002 per share
–> Sum $0.0015 per share.
(Flat Rate (formerly known as "bundeled") is 0.005 per share)
Actual costs may vary due to routing, and when a limit price is above the current price. In this case you remove liquidity.
Yes, the exchanges give you money back because you add liquidty to the markets.
Thanks for the new thread. I think it will be helpful for any new IB/TB users. So I take it you do not have MIT checked, but you do have the C2 tab’s convert to limit orders checked?
I had another interesting thing happen today. There was a sell order that didn’t go through, which I discovered when I checked my computer after the close. There was a popup warning about market orders and limit orders not being filled if IB cannot … something or other. Unfortunately I was rather perturbed the order didn’t go through and I hit the check box to not show that warning and never copied the actual text of the warning. Any ideas how to avoid those?
Lastly did you take Rene’s advice and switch your pricing structure?
As always thank you for your help. Hope I can make it up when I know all the answers. Matthews Gen3 for IB my be a good resolve.
Richard
Hi Jay,
details are here: http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/accounts/fees/INETstkfee.php?ib_entity=llc
Market-on-open is somwhere in between, they cost $0.0005 per share, Market Orders (remove liquidity) cost 0.003 per share, Limit (Add Liquidity) cost -0.002, i.e. you get some money back.
(These are exchange fees only, IB adds its own costs ($0.0035 per share for "small traders") on top of this)
René
Yes, seriously Rene, thanks! I haven’t seen any numbers on it yet because it won’t switch until the next statement date, but it’s worth trying it out for a month to see.
Hi Richard,
Did you find out what the error was? I suggest every day checking the “completed orders” tab in TWS, as it is the daily record of all signals executed or not executed. If you got any errors on particular orders, the errors will be there with a yellow exclamation mark. If you don’t have the completed orders tab, you should be able to add it through your display configuration.
As for MIT/C2 when filled, if you have autosync enabled, I would recommend also enabling Fill when touched (I think MIT is superfluous). If C2 realizes a fill and you don’t, it will eventually sync the position anyway, but it can take a couple of minutes to do so, which only widens the gap between your fill price and Topaz’s. With fill when touched enabled, at least you keep that gap as narrow as possible. (You can see in the TB log when you realize a fill or a sell due to syncing.)
One quick tip if I didn’t already mention, do NOT enable “allow trading in pre-market session” in TWS if you have autosync enabled. I did so at first, and one morning I got a fill at 9:20am when Topaz signals came, and then on market open at 9:30, C2 sync immediately sold and then repurchased the same position! (only a small loss). C2 didn’t recognize that I had already received and executed the signal, since it was prior to market open.
As per my note to Rene, I’m changing pricing structures, but it won’t take effect for a bit. So we’ll see how it goes.
Ta for now!
Christina
