Missing Entry in Custom Leaderboard

C2
1

I while back I created a custom leaderboard to track the most popular systems by AUM:

https://systensfx.collective2.com/lb/343

I was curious where BattleFutures was on that list and was surprised it was not there. I then looked at the same list generated from the Formula Details page:

https://systensfx.collective2.com/lb/examine/343

It shows BattleFutures as #12 on the list, which is what I would have expected. Can anyone from C2 help explain why the two versions of the same list have differences?

2

Hi Gary,

I’m not C2, but I still know something about this topic.

C2 filters out certain strategies. They don’t appear on the normal leaderboard or on any custom leaderboard. Only in the preview, when you can adjust the formula, can you see the “real” results and therefore “all” strategies.

Unfortunately I can’t say why this is the case.

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3

Here’s another version of the AUM list produced by C2:

https://collective2.com/datastudies/strategyAUM

It seems to include all of the systems, including those that are made Private. It’s still a mystery as to which systems are excluded from the custom leaderboard list. My only guess is that if it has a low ranking on the default leaderboard then it is excluded. For example, The Spirit of Nicolas Darvas is listed at #2 on this AUM list, but is not included in my custom leaderboard (unless you view the formula details). The default leaderboard ranking for this system is #544…which I also don’t understand given that it is a solid system with a very long track record, but that is a topic for a different thread. Likewise, Index Futures Trading has a default leaderboard ranking of #235 and it is also excluded from my custom leaderboard.

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4

I once compared all strategies from “GaryLynnScoreV2”. Which ones are shown in the formula but not in the leaderboard.
It’s quite a few strategies! I couldn’t see a pattern…it’s all there. High leverage, TOS strategies, a few months old, a few years old. I can’t find any common ground here as to why so many strategies from C2 are “black listed”.

What does this leaderboard say if 21 out of 50 strategies are hidden due to an unknown filter?
Why is this filter not public?
It also sees strategies from managers who have other strategies that are not black listed and even have some subscribers. Managers are also not notified by C2 that their strategy is blacklisted and will not appear on any leaderboards. This naturally puts these managers at a significant disadvantage compared to other managers.

Here is the list including the “real” rank from “GaryLynnScoreV2” (from today 15th of February):

  1. BuildWealth: https://collective2.com/details/144798539
  2. IC Algotrading: IC Algotrading
  3. How I Invest 1 Original: https://collective2.com/details/123937705
  4. RMHI Humane Growth Port: https://collective2.com/details/77477692
  5. Hedge Rotation Alpha: https://collective2.com/details/145050488
  6. WS Value Investing: https://collective2.com/details/144168570
  7. Magic Formula: https://collective2.com/details/143878876
  8. MES Trader: https://collective2.com/details/144825262
  9. 4QTiming NDX3x: https://collective2.com/details/105498828
  10. MFG 50K Portfolio: https://collective2.com/details/145176913
  11. Quant small cap winners: https://collective2.com/details/143032509
  12. Alpha Hedge Portfolio: Alpha Hedge Portfolio
  13. ares MES: ares MES
  14. How I Invest 3 HSA: How I Invest 3 HSA
  15. Market Leaders: https://collective2.com/details/130039802
  16. 300SuperCycle: 300SuperCycle
  17. NASDAQ KT Number: https://collective2.com/details/138912423
  18. 4Timing Machine Learning: https://collective2.com/details/97088697
  19. TQQQ Daytrader: https://collective2.com/details/138550056
  20. TOP Stocks AI: https://collective2.com/details/145539960
  21. 4Timing Trend ML: https://collective2.com/details/124696549
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The one thing in common is that they all either have a low C2 ranking of “Top 6.8%” (which is really meaningless in my opinion) or no C2 ranking listed. If I was a manager of one of those systems I think I would want an explanation as to why my system is black-listed.

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6

Nothing is “blacklisted.” The default C2 leaderboard is generated by primarily using the C2Score, which is C2’s proprietary scoring methodology.

If you don’t want to use the default C2Score, then by all means, build your own custom leaderboard, using your own custom formula (or use someone else’s leaderboard formula, if they’ve made it public.) This is exactly what GaryLynn2 (and others) have done, so hats off to them.

Obviously, no single ranking methodology is right for everyone, but the C2Score is our best attempt to generally optimize the experience for investors who use C2.

Matthew

7

@MatthewKlein I think you are missing the point. The custom leaderboards exclude those systems that have a low ranking on the default leaderboard. You can view the unfiltered list from the formula details page, but most people won’t know to go there.

8

Hi, Gary:

There are two conversations / questions going on at once, which is making this a bit confusing.

First – the issue that caused me to rise from my stupor and respond on these forums – was a question (accusation?) that there is some kind of “blacklisting” of strategies on the main Leaderboard page – i.e. that strategies that should be visible on the leaderboard are not, due to some nefarious plot to keep worthy strategies hidden and keep good men down. To that accusation, I explained that: No, it’s not a malicious “blacklisting,” – rather it’s just the case that the main Leaderboard is mostly determined by the official “C2Score,” and that C2Score formula, while not explicitly public at this time, is merely my best effort to make a general-purpose ranking methodology that works for a majority of this site’s users.

The other issue, which was the first one you raised in this thread, is that you are seeing different results between the following two screens: 1) the “scoring workbench” screen, where you, as a formula developer, can look at interim/live results of your formula, so that you can tweak it in a dynamic way; and 2) the “public” custom leaderboard screen, where members of the public can view the results of that formula in the form of a “custom leaderboard.”

The explanation for this second issue is a bit technical. There may be more than one thing going on, but probably the most important important thing that you should be aware of is that “public” leaderboards are pre-built and cached on a periodic basis (once or twice per day). So it’s quite possible, particularly if your score formula is heavily dependent on a stat that changes frequently and is very variable (such as AUM), that the live developer preview you see looks quite different than the static/semi-frozen cached Custom Leaderboard, which changes, at most, once or twice per day.

There may be some other, secondary things going on (private vs non-private; has strategy manager paid for a Trade Leader plan)… but to be honest I haven’t investigated in great detail, mainly because I think the main source of the differences between private-developer-preview results vs public cached leaderboard results is the fact that the public results are cached periodically, to keep the site responsive.

If there’s a particular strategy that you think absolutely must appear on your custom leaderboard, but never does, day in and day out; and that this can’t possibly be due to caching, please ping me and let me know, and me or one of my teammates can try to debug what is happening beneath the hood.

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Blacklist may have been too strong of a term, as it did imply it was intentional. My theory is that there is some sort of logic in your code that ignores systems below a certain C2 Score ranking…maybe to serve some other purpose elsewhere.

I don’t think that fast-changing stats can explain this issue. If you look at my AUM example, the Spirit of Nicolas Darvas is still not listed when viewing my AUM leaderboard, but is still #2 in the details page. I would not think that AUM would change much over a 24-hour period…at least not enough to drop it completely off the list.

I’ll go ahead and write up a support ticket later today.

10

Hi, Gary -

You were right. There were some “standard leaderboard” statistical filters that remained in place when a Custom Leaderboard was displayed.

I think this is fixed.

Thanks for letting me know.

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11

Looks fixed to me. Thanks!

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