# of system subscribers

Matthew: An earlier post implied that C2 could possinbly have only 22 system subscribers:“I began a 3-month subscription to the TradeBullet auto-trading program about 2 weeks ago, and observed that the number of prior customers using PayPal (the only method currently advertised) to pay for the service was 22”.

As a soon to be system vendor, this causes me some amount of concern about getting subscribers to my system.

Would you care to respond to that post.

This post you are referring to – where someone went to the TradeBullet Web site, and tried to compute the number of C2 paying customers based on the number of TradeBullet customers – was so silly that I didn’t bother to reply.

Perhaps I should have at least stated the obvious: How could the number of customers that TradeBullet has (an independent software company that sells a software product) relate to the number of paying subscribers at C2?

For many reasons, I don’t release detailed subscriber figures. Indeed, not many private companies release internal financial data. That’s one of the benefits of being private. The reason is that it’s a no-win situation for this site. Either people will think the number of subscribers is too small (“That’s all?”), or people will think it is too large (“How dare C2 be so successful!”). There is no “just-right” number that will make everyone satisfied.

However, I can understand why system developers want to make sure that – if they develop a good system – they will attract subscribers. Fair enough. That is why I release aggregated data – non-specific figures, to be sure – but enough information to give you a sense of how you can do here. Here are the aggregate figures: C2 has processed over 1,000 subscription transactions. That is people actually paying for systems … not simply people that are just shopping and signing up. If you include the number of people that sign up and evaluate systems, the number is much higher.

I also have stated before that the developer of a very popular system can earn between $4,000 and $6,000 dollars of subscription revenue per month, based on current C2 usage levels. Since C2 spends a fortune (for me anyway) advertising and building its user base, that figure will surely grow over the next few months.

I hope this will give system developers some comfort. If you make a good system, and build a track record (and don’t trade like a maniac), you will attract subscribers.


Actually, there are advantages of having not too many subscribers, at least for other subscribers! :slight_smile:

1. If one trades exactly the same trades as the vendor (specially with stocks) it is much better if fewer people are trying to do exactly the same thing, they get better fills.

2. For every system there is a limit number as quantity grows. A strategy might work well with 10 subscribers but not necesserily with 100. It can work well with $100K but not so well with 2 mill.

3. With fewer people here the website itself is faster and there are less problems.

4. The vendor cares more about one particular subscriber if he has 10 than if he has as many as 200…

Again, obviously these are advantages only for the subscribers. But after all, on the long run they are the ones who count.

Thank’s for the reply Matthew, and keep building the subscriber base.


I am sorry that you found my earlier post ‘silly’; I had tried to carefully state my observation as a single data-point that might be used, with one’s personal assumption about percentage of C2 subscribers who auto-trade, to get a ball-park estimate of the subscriber-count. I did not suggest that all C2 subscribers were TradeBullet subscribers, nor did I try to ‘compute’ the subscriber-count.

I do appreciate your efforts at truthfully reporting the results of so many trading systems, and have recommended your site to other investors. I am hoping for its longevity and success, and still feel (evidently along with others) that a published count of subscribers (or a ranking of systems thereby) would be a major selling point for the successful trading systems.

Alan: I apologize. Your guess-timate wasn’t silly.

In any case, the request for a detailed count of subscriber numbers is duly noted, and something I will consider adding in the future.

I do appreciate all feedback, even that feedback which I do not necessarily agree with or act upon immediately.


Thanks for the response Matthew. If 1000+ subscribers are in the system that’s a decent number. I wonder how many of those are other C2 traders :wink:

The promotion of C2 will be as much a responsibility of Traders using C2 (to promote their own systems) as it is C2’s to bring both traders and potential subscribers to the site. The chief reason I like C2’s system is I can place both stop and target prices for my suggested picks and let nature take its course. The email alerts are great and it is a useful support to my website (www.fallondpicks.com) and blog (www.blog.fallondpicks.com). Chief benefit is not having to micromanage to the same degree as other systems. You would probably benefit from an ad on the public list page of Stockcharts.com, and/or the front page of ADVFN.com which does plenty of promotion itself. I for one will do my own little bit on my blog.

Best wishes,



I guess its better not knowing how many subscribers to each system I suppose. But as long as you understand that offering a trading system and having have to pay for it at the same time can be dauting if there is some unknown.

But…I am confident in this site and its growth. Lucky u! man…oh man. You hit the goldmine brother. Anyways…

We all have to advertise in some sorta way/.

I myself will hit my old database of past subscribers. We shall see if that works.

Thanx Mark…Though I am gonna be upset on splitting 30% with you. ugh

I don’t think I agree, Peter Berdi, the more people trading the same way may affect your fill but the more trades at any given price will lend support, or resistance at that area making the move stronger and possibly better. If you are trading high volume stocks, which any trader should be, it would take untold numbers to make any difference anyway. Kent.

I don’t know, if you know about option trading, but if a bunch of orders, specially limit orders show up at the same price, the bid will go down 1 or 2 ticks, because the MMs realize that buyers are coming in. Several of the systems here trade not so liquid options and stocks.

For stocks it is sure good for the vendor, since he acted first, thus he will have a confortable cushion knowing more buyers are coming in AFTER him.

> If you are trading high volume stocks, which any trader should be,

Generally you are right, nevertheless what if the strategy works well on obscure stocks? Having a bunch of people moving in will alter the strategy, but again, the people acting first will be the happy ones. This will also cause that the rest will not get filled or at a different and higher price.

As a subscriber I would rather have only a few others with me instead of hundreds, but that is just me…