Order fill problem report/respond speed issue

7/10/08 12:17 BTO 1 @YMU8 @ limit 11154 GTC Pending Cancel Xrplc


Hi Matthew, the above YMU8 order should have been filled from my chart reading. I have reported this problem 1 hour ago but so far there’s still no response from C2 yet. Could you please take a look?

Regarding the speed issue I have a general suggestion to make. I hope the C2 engine’s software can be so designed that it will always respond to vender’s order fill problem report right away with a clear “yes” or “no” answer. From programming point of view I just don’t see any reason why this can not be done (because once a problem is reported by vender it becomes a simple task that C2 engine should be able to take care of it right away).

I see that the order has just been filled, but not at the right time. C2 engine has filled the order in the recent YM pullback just now while it should have been filled 1 hour ago.

When I trade pit futures, even liquid ones, I am constantly getting fills even hours later than I should. Many times, the fills don’t even happen the entire session, in instruments that might have 4-5000 contracts traded that day.

It is a constant frustration

Ross, go outside and look at the sunshine and think happy thoughts!

Yes it will!

these are the pit contracts today that did not fill during the entire session, on orders that should have had them in the first few minutes of trading:

CLX8, HOU8, HOV8, HOX8, HOZ8, NGV8, PAU8, RBu8, RBV8, RBX8, RBZ8

now the last time I checked, the energies were pretty well traded. So consider your point ignored, and back to your hole…

these are the pit contracts today that did not fill during the entire session, on orders that should have had them in the first few minutes of trading:

Simulation of pit orders is near to impossible. You must place real order to pit to figure out what happens after that.

Hint: MK/C2’s support accepts real statement as prove in any doubtful situation about fills. Give your statement and it’ll be fixed in 99% :wink:


This is not simulation. C2 gets data from the exchange. Pit contracts should be fillable as readily as electronic, although obviously the data is delayed by a couple of minutes.

But a MOO on a somewhat liquid pit contract that does not fill all day long has something wrong with the system.


I have noticed a similar problem with C2 and pit contracts. Matthew has assured me there is no problem, but I have encountered it repeatedly. Just as you said, liquid contracts which do not trade for quite some time, if at all. Because of this issue, I rarely trade pit contracts anymore on C2. If there is no acknowledgement of a problem existing, it won’t ever be addressed. So, I gave up.


I searched through our email correspondence to try to find an instance that I ignored your complaint about pit prices. This is the closest I found.


Hi Matthew,

I have noticed that pit quotes sometimes do not get updated like the electronic ones (for example I have a CDH8 and ADH8 that haven’t been updated for a while). Is your system not designed primarily for electronic contract trading? Someone emailed me that they couldn’t autotrade with pit contracts, so they could not subscribe unless we used e contracts. Is that true?



It has little to do with C2, and more to do with the nature of pits.

Pit quotes are typed in by human beings. They are always slow to be updated. Electronics are based on real bid/ask spreads and are updated in a timely way. Has nothing to do with C2 – this is the nature of the exchanges.

Some brokers do not allow trading of pits. It depends on the broker the subscriber wants to use. But all allow electronics.


What I wrote in our email correspondence above still is true. Most trading is moving away from the pits, anyway. Most autotraders can’t trade pit contracts at their brokers, so having your system trade them is a good way to deter subscribers. And the quotes one receives from the pits are delayed and often incorrect. If you’ve ever actually tried in real life to place an order with a broker for a pit contract, you will be familiar with this. In my experience, I often found myself waiting minutes for a broker to confirm that my market order had filled! Given all these factors, for most instruments, there is no reason to use pit-traded futures. Most system vendors should stick with electronics. The pits will be gone soon enough, anyway, as the world moves entirely to electronic trading.

however for futures meat contracts, the electronic contracts are pitiful…

But you did not report any problems with those more-liquid meat pit contracts. (A gross mixed metaphor.)

correct, but the point was the electronic meats should be avoided for awhile.

As should the miNY contracts on Nymex