Do you have any paying subscribers. I think 495 sounds reasonable.
Hello VixLite,
Currently everyone is still on trial. I cannot determine if they’ll cancel at the end of the trial. The only thing I see is my AUM (assets under management) as of right now is $814,500. I can also see that they are auto trading this strategy. Looking at my ES trade from today, I see that everyone is 100% scale minimum. My position was 2 ES contracts. I also see that 3 investors traded 4 contracts for my 2 and one individual traded 8 contracts.
I don’t know if that’s an indication that they will stay after their trial is over.
Good day
Hello,
A kind reminder that there are two more days before this coupon expires. The expiration is this Friday the 29th of December at the U.S. market close. This affords you one month without cost to the strategy “Payoff Matrix”.
Another reminder is I use stops with every single order. Not a “mental” stop. Not a fancy explanation of why the stop is not attached to the order but there really is one somewhere in space. A real stop attached to the order. It’s sitting in the book and every investor knows the price of that stop with every single position. Stops may not work for every trader but this is the reason I use them and they work for me. I’m not looking to impress the investors with a bunch of wins only to have a huge crash on one trade one day. I’m not looking to impress investors by using martingale to show a winner. If I get stopped out so be it. Once I put a stop on, it’s only moved to a better location to protect profits. I will never move an initial stop to a worse location. Again, it doesn’t work for every trader but my investors have the confidence to know where the trade is stopped out and the risk associated with that trade. If a particular trade moved huge against me, I may get “lucky” and have it come back possibly even for a winner. I don’t play that game. It doesn’t work for me. I’m more interested in moving away from the trade as fast as possible as it became a loser and I was wrong.
One other item to consider is this strategy is accountable for the leverage used. It’s no good in my book to have a stop that’s 10% of the capital and the profit ends up at 1% when the trade is closed. I measure my profits in R multiples or the leverage used to achieve the return and strive to obtain a minimum 1:1 risk/reward if not better.
Generally my stops are 1% to 2% of my capital (currently around $50,000). The max stop is 5% of capital and on occasion less than 1%. Most trades fall within the 1% to 2% risk.
If you would like a sense of how much this strategy is currently managing, the current AUM (assets under management) is $1,279,900. About $1.3 million. This is the amount the current investors have committed to trading this strategy.
If you need clarity on any other details, please reach out through this post or a PM. PM is quicker as it pops up and I generally don’t read the forums during the day.
I don’t make any promise of any returns past or future. You the investor should determine if this strategy is right for you and that’s what the coupon is for. If you are interested in the strategy, this trial can only be value added to assist in your decision.
Good day
UGFB56473
P.S.
If you are a current investor, feel free to leave your comments good or bad. Two have done so above.
When it comes to proper money management, position sizing and risk management, Payoff Matrix makes the top of the chart hands down. As an active trader, I was able to double 2 accounts in 5 months by simply applying money management, risk management appropriately myself. So I have seen how in order to ensure profitability, one must have a solid trade plan about the whole life cycle of the trade such as when to get in and when to get out with profit or loss with what position size before even a trade takes place along with applying the rule of Risk to Reward ratio aspect to determine whether a trade is viable. If you are risking $1000 to make only $100, that’s not a viable trade by any means. Payoff Matrix is always making sure a trade has at least 1R meaning he would only risk $1000 if he knows he potentially could make $1000 or more. And that risk to reward ratio (R factor) has to translate into defined profit target and a strict stop loss target that can only be moved in the direction of profitability (up for long and down for short) when a trade is going in favor to lock in and maximize profit along with minimizing risk. I must say he is really good at “letting the winner runs”.
Nobody knows what will happen when a black swan type event happens even if you have a stop loss in place but in order to prevent bigger losses that could eventually wipe your account out, you must have a real stop loss (not mental) every time you are in a trade. Sometimes you have to “lose professionally” when you do have to take a loss.
Beside trade management, when it comes to communication, Payoff matrix is impeccable. He keeps all the investors informed about market trend, his plan and vision for the day along with explaining the trades that he takes with complete details. He also explains why he stays sidelined the day he doesn’t take any trade. I know we the investors, are anxious to make money every day but his explanation for not taking trades some days reminds me of this saying from the trading world “sometimes not taking trades actually make you the money you didn’t lose or could have lost”.
As a business man, I like to leverage talented developers from C2 to grow my wealth which is why I am here on C2 and I am constantly in search of top notch developers on C2. I must say, so far Payoff Matrix has impressed me with his strict rules and discipline, communication and not to mention his ability to identify and execute great trade opportunities. In Trading Academy, I learned that following rules, adopting proper risk management, position sizing is half of your trade. Payoff matrix has exceeded my expectations in that aspect and other contexts as well. I hope that Payoff Matrix will be around for years and that he would be able to deliver good returns year after year. I wish we had lot more developers like Payoff Matrix on C2.
2 Likes
Hello All,
I am new to C2 (6 weeks to be exact) and just recently discovered Payoff Matrix. Before subscribing to his strategy he was VERY kind and offered some really good advice regarding my current trades. He was nice enough to share and offer advice and that is rare unless your paying someone.
I am very excited to try his strategy as he has a very thorough understanding of trading and wants to keep his subscribers in the know for each and every trade. This is well respected. I will definitely provide my status after the next 30 days of following.
Payoff Matrix I am excited to join your team,
Ben
1 Like
What a hype and delights after 9 trades only. Hope this guy will not end up as other recently appeared PROs like QuantStatFutures or WhateverYouCanImaginePRO guy. 
Hello JITF,
I have asked investors to leave comments or a review good or bad and four have done so already. These are investors that are on trial and have seen the inner workings of my strategy. They are leaving a review of how they feel about the strategy. In addition, my current AUM (assets under management) stands at $1,482,500. Almost $1.5 million dollars. This is the amount the actual investors have committed to trade this strategy. Many of these investors have been burned before and wouldn’t commit this much capital if they felt my strategy is like any other. In essence, they have “been around the block” before. They’ve seen good strategies and bad ones. They took the test drive with no obligation to keep the membership or even trade it.
While I understand your concern about other strategies, many of the investors have had the same concerns. Not just about the particular one you mentioned but several different strategies across the board. Many investors have been burned and are justified to have these feelings and concerns. I had an investor contact me about a strategy the other day. Not the one you mentioned but one that’s on the top 10 list of strategies. He also was burned losing a large amount of capital. I’m not in any position to comment on any trader or his strategy good or bad in a public forum like this.
I do notice that you are simulating my strategy but have not taken a test drive. The comments above are from investors that are on a test drive. I would suggest using the coupon to try the system. You may have no intention of keeping your membership and no intention of trading the strategy. After your trial is over in 30 days, come back to this post and leave a comment or review. That would be more constructive than judging a book by its cover. On simulation, you see only results. That’s only half the story. You don’t see the stops used. You don’t see the leverage used to achieve those results. You don’t see the communication I have with the investors. All I ask is if you want to leave a comment or review, take the trial first.
Good day
1 Like
I am simulating any new strategy younger than 3 months promoted here on the forum or in the personal messages. I am doing this since mid of September, it is kind of a test. Right now I am -130k down. 
I don’t see any reason for test drive. I don’t believe that your system will survive or bring income longer than 3-6 months.
Your subs trade your system only because you made it free. Will see how much of them will stay after coupon expires.
Hello JITF,
I would like to put this discussion to bed. I created a coupon to offer potential investors a chance to test drive the strategy for one month without cost. I did not create this post to talk about people’s opinions especially ones that have not even taken a free trial.
I will say this. I am sure you are well aware there is a very high percentage of traders that fail. That’s not a secret. With you simulating all the new strategies that are promoted, you should expect that 90% fail or whatever the current rate is for a trader to fail. And those losses combined outweigh the profits from the 10% that make it. So if that’s your strategy, you should expect to be down on simulation.
Another thing. It is quite unfair to categorize every new strategy into the “failure” column. If you take a test drive and don’t like what you see, that would be different. To blindly make an assumption like that isn’t constructive. If you’re not interested in this strategy, that’s OK. If you are, I would be honored to have you as an investor.
Again, without a base an opinion is only that. I don’t need to hear your response. I mentioned that I’d like to put this conversation to bed. If you just want to simulate that’s fine. If you change your mind about the test drive that’s fine also.
You also commented on my investors trading the strategy because it’s free. That should be for me to worry about. If the current investors are unhappy, that’s what the coupon was for. They are under no obligation to keep their membership. Some may be here for the free ride. Some may see value. I can’t predict the future and can’t comment on how many will or won’t stay.
Again, no need to respond back. If you still don’t agree, I am not going to change your mind. We can simply agree to disagree and leave it alone as gentlemen.
Good day
Risk 1000 to earn 100…
These two numbers just exist in your mind. How do you know you are risking 100 to ear 1000 or you r risking 1000 to earn 100. You basically have no idea. That is arbitrary. Technical analysis? Come on. We are not living in stone age…
You trade future with 1.3 million $? Do you take the same amount of risk as your C2 account?
Hello TaoLi2,
Here are my risk controls again. I risk 1% to 2% on average of my capital ($50,000). My max risk is 5% and on occasion I risk less than 1%.
In dollar terms, this is what it means. I risk on average $500 to $1000 per trade. The $1.5 million is my current AUM (assets under management). This is what all the investors combined have committed to this strategy. My risk of 1% is not based on this AUM number.
Let’s take an example in oil CL. If I take a trade and have a $0.25 stop away from my entry price, my risk per contract is $250. I may take 2 to 4 contracts in this position. If I’m wrong, I lose $500 to $1000. If the position was 2 contracts and got stopped out, the position lost $500. If the position was 4 contracts and got stopped out, it lost $1000. Let’s say hypothetically I shorted CL on Tuesday 12/26 at $58.80 and let’s say I used 4 contracts. If my stop was $60.05, I would be stopped out and would have lost $1000. Now let’s assume I didn’t use a stop instead “thinking” oil will come back down. Oil is currently at $60.44. If I held, I would be down $6600 and maybe praying. That doesn’t really work for me. I would rather be wrong and save the $5600 (and possibly more if it goes higher).
Again, stops don’t work for every trader. You mentioned before that you like to take BIG risk for the big return. If that works for you, that’s great. It just doesn’t work for me.
As far as the AUM, the investors can determine at what scale level they are comfortable. I have some as high as 400%. That’s not for every investor. There are many that are comfortable at 100% scale. The investor determines that.
Here’s how I use the AUM. I am aware of it and aware of what scale the investors prefer. Depending on the market I trade, I may have to scale in as it may be a thin market to get full size on. If it’s a thicker market, this doesn’t become as much of a concern. But other than that, the AUM is just that. Money allocated.
Here’s why stops work for me. I trade during the day and close all my positions at the market close. Look what happened in oil the other day. Imagine I shorted that market and didn’t use a stop. That BIG risk turns into a BIG problem. I want the confidence to know when I’m wrong and simply use a stop for that piece of mind. A stop may not work for every trader and that’s OK. My view is this. If the trade is wrong, I want to move away from it as fast as possible. I was wrong and got stopped out. I don’t want a bad trade to linger around. I want to move on. As fast as possible.
If you disagree with using stops, we can simply agree to disagree and move away from this topic. My intention is not to change your mind on stops. I simply mention what works for me. We’ve had this discussion already in another post. If you want to take big risk, that’s your prerogative. You aren’t trying to change my mind on using stops. And I’m not trying to change your mind on how you do things. I’m not trying to teach you anything. If something works for you great.
Since we already talked about this same topic now twice, I’d also like to put this discussion to bed. We talked about it in two different posts. I don’t need or want a response. I don’t want to make this an entire discussion about who’s risk control methods are right or wrong. How you do things is your business not mine and vice versa. How you do things is irrelevant for me as it has no impact on me. It should be the same for you. If I do things a certain way, it has no impact on you.
Thank you for being a gentlemen about this and understanding that not all people agree all the time. Sometimes it’s best just to leave it alone and walk away.
Good day
I won’t argue with you on this. This is very fundamental, Let’s see the performance after 6 months.
Thank you TaoLi2 and have a Happy New Year!
Good one! You are referring to stopping the conversation politely and not the trade stop correct?
Indeed. Just a play on words.
Have a very safe and Happy New Year everyone!
1 Like
No problem, I understand that you create this post to promote your great system and listen for delights, but it is a free forum and opinions can be different. I already got that you make a good communication and use stops from forum posts and decription, from your trades I can estimate leverage, I can get all your previous signals and see how you put and change stops. So no reason for me to test drive your system until it starts to meet my criteria.
You use indicators in your trading, I use indicators also. One of my indicators - more posts from trader on the forum increase probability of his failure during next several months. So assumption wasn’t made blindly. 
Anyway, Happy holidays and will see your trading in the New Year.
This should be stamped in gold as a fact at the top of the forum page. LOL
1 Like
I totally agree with your comments
