Hi, in addition to my previous questions (that I hope will be answered soon), I have additional questions regarding creating a trading system.
1. I noticed that anyone can see the trades that have been made in a certain trading system even if he is not subscribed to this system, and I want to understand if and how can I disable this function so that only subscribers can see historical trades. I know there is a function of delaying the historical data presented but this may not solve the issue regarding my system. I consider creating a long-term trading system in which the trading frequency is very low, and in which the timing of the trades is less important than systems with more frequent trades, so that if anyone can see the historical trades in my system (even if it will be slightly delayed) it will be very easy to follow the system without subscribing to it.
2. I saw that there is an option to “reveal number of subscribers and revenue for my trading systems” and I want to understand what is exactly revealed by this function. Does it reveal the exact number of subscribers or just the fact that there are paid subscribers to my system (the “$” sign that is attached to certain systems)? If a system doesn’t have the “$” sign does it necessarily mean that such system doesn’t have any paid subscribers or it is also possible that it has paid subscribers but its creator didn’t want to reveal any data regarding subscribers? What may be reveal by “revenue for my trading system” – the actual total subscription fees or any other general data regarding this matter?
I am sorry that I have many questions but it is important for me to understand these issues well prior to creating a system. Thanks in advance for your help.
Another question: what does the "system notebooks" number under the "crowd opinion" title mean? Is that the number of subscribers or any other data? Thanks.
- We require historical results to be displayed (and historical trade-by-trade details). You can delay results for up to one week, but that is the maximum.
2) Reveal # of subscribers and revenue shows exact details for both metrics, when system vendors opt-in to showing this. So, for those vendors who elect to show this, you will see text like this: “System creator has earned $10,000 in subscriber revenue.” Or: "234 subscribers."
The little graphical $ icon, which indicates the presence of paid subscribers (or absence in the case of the icon’s not being present) is not an optional setting for system developers. It is a binary yes/no, and is shown (or not shown) for all systems.
Thanks for the response. Can you please also answer my other question regarding the System Notebooks? Thanks.
Hello Thomas,
Please see this previous post about System Notebooks -
http://collective2.com/cgi-perl/board.mpl?want=listmsgs&threadhilite=11708&boardid=9323885&msghilite=71957751#msgid71957751
- Alen
Regarding the maximum delay of one week of the historical results – I think that such delay may be sufficient regarding trading systems which trade relatively frequently (in which the average trade, opening and closing, typically lasts a few days or a week). However, regarding trading systems which are based on longer-term investment horizon, such as a few weeks or months, the maximum delay of one week is not meaningful at all, and such systems can be copied very easily by users who just look at the historical trades without subscribing to the system.
I would like to post my system on C2 but I want to get paid for it. Unfortunately, currently there is no economic reason for users to subscribe to such longer-term systems due to the reasons mentioned above. If C2 aims to attract also developers of longer-term trading systems, and not only short term trading systems, I think it should enable a sufficient delay period in accordance with the trading style.
For example, C2 may decide that the maximum delay period may be up to the average length (measured in days) of the trades in the system. By doing that it will be fair to developers of systems that use longer-term trades (and not only to developers that use short-term trades), so that potential subscribers will be incentivize to actually subscribe to such systems and not just watching the historical trades and copying them. Please let me know if C2 plans to make any such change in the near future. Thanks.
Thomas - If you look at the trade histories that are displayed to non-subscribers, you would realize that all open positions are hidden regardless of when they were opened.
The trade history only shows trades after they have been closed and the delay period has been completed. Therefore, non-subscribers cannot simply copy trades because they do not see them until positions have been opened and closed.
Sadly, that feature is not sufficient to protect those who trade a binary position on a single instrument. That is to say, if a viewer sees that the long position is closed, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that a short position has been initiated, and vice versa. A longer delay would be highly desirable for such systems. Until that time, those kind of longer-term systems are impractical on C2 because there is no incentive to subscribe.
Yeah, go ahead. Make Matthew to create 6 month delay.
Just tell me: who will subscribe to the system having 6 months old results and have no idea how the system works this month at least?
Thank you.
Ross,
It’s important not to get hysterical about this issue. Go into the grid and sort the systems in descending order by trade duration and see just how many systems hold for periods of time that make a 7 day delay irrelevant. Perhaps subscribers will be skeptical if a vendor delays by 30 days, perhaps not. But shouldn’t vendors have the choice?
Keep in mind that actively managed mutual funds report their holdings on a quarterly basis, so I’m not sure why the suggestion of a longer delay causes you such emotional distress.
INTJ - Your "exception to the rule" does not change the fact that most systems (short term and long term) cannot be copied because opening trades are hidden until positions are fully closed.
As a subscriber of multiple systems, I do not trust a vendor who hides results for 7 days. Maybe it is just me, but also, I do not trust obnoxious system vendors.
I didn’t notice that. Thanks for clarifying. I assume that as opposed to non-subscribers, that cannot see any open positions, the subscribers can see the open positions, right?
Thomas - Yes, subscribers can see the open positions because they have to be able to trade your system.
If you really think that a subscriber is "reselling" your signal, you have the capability to unsubscribe anybody as you choose.
Lone Ranger,
I agree, many systems are well served by the 7 day delay. But some are not, primarily those that trade a single instrument for the medium or long term.
It’s gratifying that you have found systems which have characteristics you can trust. Some subscribers prefer faster disclosure of trades. Some prefer a longer-term subscription period, or a free trial. If a vendor chooses to delay for a longer period of time, a subscriber is free to avoid such a system. Isn’t it a bit condescending to decide for all subscribers what they should prefer? After all, as I pointed out previously, the long disclosure periods have not dissuaded many retail investors from using mutual funds.
An extended delay was implemented on C2’s former sister site, Youtualfunds, because the logic is compelling. It seems like implementing it here would be a good idea as well. It’s unclear to me why you would oppose this, as you can simply avoid those systems should you choose.
Good luck to you in your trading.
Thomas wrote : " I noticed that anyone can see the trades that have been made in a certain trading system even if he is not subscribed to this system"
Hi Thomas,
If you are a C2 system developer, you can see all your open trades (and/or pending orders) when you log in to your C2 account, non-subscribers cannot.
Your trades become visible to the public only when you close them, unless you choose to delay them.
