And as a general question, how can one find out systems that have TOS status? I can’t find that ‘on the grid’
Hi, David:
The Trades-Own-System (“TOS”) Certification program is new. We “soft-launched” it over the new year, and - as of today - don’t have a simple way to view certified TOS systems.
But, now that we have a handful of TOS Systems already certified, we will soon turn on the ability to find these TOS Systems, and we will further integrate TOS “badges” into many areas of the site.
I hope that, by promoting TOS Systems, will encourage even more system creators to sign up for TOS certification.
Look for the new features within the next week.
MK
TOS sounds like a great idea. A lot easier to gauge a developer commitment to the system when you know he’s trading it.
Keep the good work up guys
> we will soon turn on the ability to find these TOS Systems
Great, looking forward to it!
I would also look at the position size the developer is trading to gauge the commitment. For all it’s worth a developer may be trading 1 lot for every 50 lots his/her Forex system is trading just to get TOS certified.
Since system vendors trading their own systems is still so rare, I commend anyone willing to give it a shot. So many talk the talk, but so few are willing to walk the walk.
Probably the best approach a subscriber can take is not risk any more on a trading system than the provider is willing to risk (whether that’s zero, $4,000, $140,000 or $1.4 million).
I’m trading my own system @100% and to be honest I don’t think it reasonable to be doing anything else.[LINKSYSTEM_46485830]
If you are unwillingly to add some of the more popular futures brokers like Mirus for automatic trading, I am willingly to provide you a copy from Ninja Trader showing I did trade my system manually with my own money in order to get the TOS badge.
Why not just take a small part of your money and open an account with OpenECry?
I happen to prefer Velocity Futures, and keep a good chunk of my money with them. But, that didn’t prevent me from participating in the TOS program as it currently exists.
You have to understand that I have linked Ninja Trader to Mirus Futures. Also, you need to understand that futures move quickly. It is hard enough to duplicate my trades in both NT and on collective 2 at the same time.
I also, need to have a decent intraday margin available to trade these futures which is what Mirus provides. I did look at other brokerages in that I thought I would move my account from Mirus to them so that I could trade C2 better, but after comparing all other brokerages, Mirus was still the best for my needs.
My system can be traded manually by other traders who want to follow my signals or if someone wants to open an account with a C2 broker, it can be traded automatically.
In the end, I am more concerned about my real money trading then subscriptions from C2 for this system. This is why I may either limit subscribers or even remove this system from C2 if I feel its too good and I don’t want any subscribers. However, while on C2 I am more than willingly to provide their company with proof of real money trades.
It is possible that C2 is not the appropriate platform for your system.
For futures systems I like to look at the “P/L per Unit” stat on “The Grid”. If your system makes very frequent trades, each with a small profit target, it will be very difficult for subscribers to make money trading your system. As a potential subscriber, I figure any P/L per Unit below $50 is just too low to make sense trying to follow. Commissions, autotrade fees and subscription fees would eat up all the profits. My general rule is a system needs to post about a year’s worth of trades and have a P/L per Unit of around $100, or higher, to consider following it (and, of course, have a TOS Badge, too).
None of my normal trades that go to stop or target is less than $ 50.00 per contract.
From what you just stated anyone would be a fool to subscribe to your system. You had a trade less then $ 100 per unit, and your system is not more than a year old.
This will be my last comment unless you want to get into a flame war. All I was trying to do here was provide proof if needed by the owner of the website that I trade my system with real money.
I agree. At two months old, my newest system is far too young to warrant any attention, all by itself.
However, what it does have going for it is the fact that I’ve taken a little bit of extra effort to open up an account with OpenECry (even though they don’t give the best commission rates) so I can autotrade it myself and publicly display my trade record.
This shows that I not only trust the system enough to put a large chunk of my own money at risk, but that I believe any potential subscriber should be able to very effectively use C2’s AutoTrade interface to trade my system, if they so choose.
Sure is nice to see all the little TOS icons showing up. There are lots of good stock, options and forex systems out there, which I hadn’t even noticed, before.
Representation seems a bit light from the futures traders. Come on guys! Itâs time to show a little confidence in our own stuff!
While theoretically commendable when any system is set up as TOS, I found one system trading at 0.01% scaling which works out to about $400 at risk. At that level it becomes a mockery of the TOS designation.
Risking $100K should NOT be required, but at the same time risking $400 doesn’t exactly make me believe the developer is committed. Yes the stats are there for everyone to see, but like most things, if it’s not right up in your face, I think most people will think all TOS developers are committing most of their funds to the system.
TOS Caveat Emptor!
Regards,
Dave
I agree with this. I’ve also seen a system with TOS status where the amount of money invested by the developer is derisory and clearly mocks C2’s TOS status.
Not sure what the right formula should be, but I also agree that the investment of the dev should be more visible than it currently is.
I think I know which one you are referring to, and, in looking at the AutoTrade record it looks like the vendor is trading it at 1% scale, even though clicking on the TOS badge shows .01% scale. Even then, it’s a fairly small $4,000 at risk.
I would simply advocate not risking any more money on a system than the developer is willing to risk. If the developer is risking such a small amount of money on a system that trading the system at that scale is a waste of time, then don’t bother with the system.
Most developers don’t even trade their own money. So take it for what its worth. At least he’s risking “some” money.
Good luck.
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I was tempted to say that too, but I didn’t want to state the obvious 
(something is better than nothing)
LOL yep… kind of a useless thread in my opinion. But oh well… give the developer some credit for at least risking something. I don’t get why other developers would criticize him/her for trading (even a small amount) when they themselves don’t trade their own system.
