This feature (limitation) must be fixed. There is no way to implement a good strategy if it trades get rejected if they are in the opposite direction from an exiting trade. This must be fixed, I’ve already heard others complain about it and I’ve heard the reasons given for not allowing it, but whatever needs to be done to fix it must be done. I feel like I’m wasting my 90 bucks trying to implement my signal when I cannot implement it entirely.
In my eyes, if metatrader and other platforms can support it, then the logic on the API engine for MT4 should handle it.
I do not understand which feature/limitation you are complaining about.
Perhaps you could give an example of what you want to be able to do which you are not currently allowed to do.
Oh, we’ve had this discussion before, Matt. It’s the "I want to take a long and short position at the same time with the same instrument. What strikes me as idiotic apparently is something accepted in the forex community, which further supports my view that forex is not for an individual trader.
This is equivalent to being flat. No other feature is needed for this. Besides, if it is computed mechanically, the math won’t be any different than being flat in c2 while “long and short at the same time in the same” instrument.
I don’t get why forex traders keep asking for this when it won’t change the results, save for extra commisions.
Pretty stupid.
"I’ve heard the reasons given for not allowing it, but whatever needs to be done to fix it must be done"
If you can’t grasp you are flat when long and short the same thing at the same time then you have 2 scenarios to consider; at worst you have no system at all, at best you have a psychological need to deal with trades this way.
The bad news is neither are likely to be tolerated here, the good news is both can be overcome. I suggest you pursue the latter course of action.
I’m guessing that FOREX user interfaces allow one to trade multiple strategies at the same time in the same account. Let’s say you have two strategies, one says go short, the other says go long. By taking a flat position, tracking of both strategies may get mucked up. Certainly if one was writing his own auto-trade software to interface to C2 this may become challenging where two strategies have to figure out what the other is holding before issuing a “close position” or “enter new position”.
I assume the solution with the current C2 setup would have to be to trade two separate FOREX systems thus keeping the strategies separate??
Steve
Multiple strategies can be implemented (if flats occur so be it). Yes, I want to run multiple strategies in one C2 system. The issue is there is no way to keep the synchronization of Metatrader with the C2 platform because C2 does not allow flat positions and Metatrader does, therefore my balance gets whacked out and if you have any kind of money management routines it breaks the strategy. C2 should just allow the trades and stop caring if they are flat or not, I’m not trying to debate if the trades are flat or not, I could care less, its about my longer term strategy. If the provider the signal is sent to does not allow these sorts of trades then its their loss.
Honestly folks, in order to be able to smooth out my returns in different market conditions, I run different strategies to take advantage of different conditions that arise, and some of my strategies will have me go flat occationally. Nothing wrong with it, please please please fix it.
In Metatrader the concept of a magic number is attached to the trades to track which trade is which. This should be added to the C2 api for metatrader as an optional parameter and attached to the account’s trades.
Dear Mr Beau Wolinsky,
I don’t appreciate being called stupid, especially since you know nothing about me nor my trading styles or strategies. I will give an explicit example:
Using a MACD Strategy a trade is opened long when a positive MACD is detected at 125 (EUR/USD Long Trade Entered) market moving along and bad news comes out… EUR/USD gets strong sell signal and tanks, dropping considerably below (but not hitting the stoploss amount of the MACD trade) A counter-breakout strategy could be simultaneously seeing the break out using lets say Tom Demark lines and enter 4 positions (taking a profit on the downward price action. Those breakout trades have a trailstop, a new news article comes out and reverses the EUR/USD the demark strategy takes a profit and the EUR/USD returns to its trend (my MACD continues course and closes for a profit.
This is what I’d like to do with Metrader (something I can do already).
>>I assume the solution with the current C2 setup would have to be to trade two separate FOREX systems thus keeping the strategies separate??
Yes, that is the easiest way to eliminate the issue that Lawrence raises.
To be honest, given the constraints of current site design, current broker interfaces, current database structure, and current APIs – and given the cost versus benefit of the proposed change – it is unlikely that this change will be implemented in the foreseeable future.
If you are new to C2 and to this discussion, please note that the issue being discussed here is completely unrelated to AutoTrading: if you autotrade at C2, there is no problem with trading multiple systems in the same brokerage account – even if they go long and short the same instruments at the same time.
Hi Mathew,
If there’s no problem with different strategies in different systems, then why is there a limitation on sending in the trades? I don’t get it!
I will give an explicit example:
Using a MACD Strategy a trade is opened long when a positive MACD is detected at 125 (EUR/USD Long Trade Entered) market moving along and bad news comes out… EUR/USD gets strong sell signal and tanks, dropping considerably below (but not hitting the stoploss amount of the MACD trade) A counter-breakout strategy could be simultaneously seeing the break out using lets say Tom Demark lines and enter 4 positions (taking a profit on the downward price action. Those breakout trades have a trailstop, a new news article comes out and reverses the EUR/USD the demark strategy takes a profit and the EUR/USD returns to its trend (my MACD continues course and closes for a profit.
This is what I’d like to do with Metrader (something I can do already).
My main point is, that with my multi-strategy system I came back from vacation and was up over $19,000 in metatrader (cause it allowed flat positions) my C2 didn’t allow the trades to be entered in the opposite direction (even though the number of trades in the opposite direction exceeded the number of lots in the other direction! This is how you can counterbalance a currently existing trade.
That means you were flat.
Again, you were flat, so c2 netted you out. In Wealth Lab if you’re long and you submit a short, it will sell you out of any long, and likewise if you were short and had a signal to buy it would close out your short.
If you insist on trading like this, and I did say you’re not the first poor misguided forex trader to ask this, then you must figure while your long and short then you’re flat. What happens next is when either the short is closed or the long is sold you can then retake your position.
What you’re saying doesn’t make any sense to me.
And yet another C2 individual creates a fabulous example of how they are not really “flat” because if you yadayadayada, then it really isn’t… This issue is becoming one of the Collective2’s collection of perpetual motion machines…
sigh O, the inanity…
[note, for those who don’t know inanity - see “inane”]
No way, your kidding? I’ve not traded the Forex for over 5 years or anything like that… uh…give the man a bone 
haha
What I’ve been saying all along is that “part of my strategy” is to be flat at times, not all the time, and only for partial orders when strategies overlap on different timeframes. There are different strategies for different timeframes and this limitation stops them from being possible using C2. If my first trade is in, and then my other strategy takes over for a bit for a different market condition and enters 4 lots instead of only 1, then I’m only flat on the 1 trade duh. There is no way to make a true “System” per say if I cannot do what I am saying I want to do and that you folks grasp the concept that its ok to be flat when you are running multiple strategies simultaneously.
I have never once said I was not flat! Read my other post and stop calling me an idiot, if you actually read what I am posting instead of just being rude and obnoxious, you might learn something.
If you make trades that don’t overlap in the Forex, then you know nothing of how to trade with any real complexity. Examples of these sorts of trades are Grid based systems or neural network trading systems that take into account multi timeframes. Google it sometime and learn something.
I believe that if any of you actually tried trading with an Expert Advisor on Metatrader to automate your trading strategies you’d finally “GET” what I am saying. Unbelievable… I’m not a moron. I understand that some of my positions would be flat “for a time” but this is not the point and closing those trades when in fact they have not hit my stoploss or takeprofit would break my strategy. Its the fact that if a trader (such as myself) want to have multiple strategies to take advantage of different timeframes and differing market conditions, you’ll need to support this capability (at least with the forex) and with Metatrader this sort of trading is essential for quite a few of the strategies.
I think we all heard you more than enough. The site owner has already given an answer on this matter. Let it rest.
My main point is, that with my multi-strategy system I came back from vacation and was up over $19,000 in metatrader (cause it allowed flat positions) my C2 didn’t allow the trades to be entered in the opposite direction (even though the number of trades in the opposite direction exceeded the number of lots in the other direction! This is how you can counterbalance a currently existing trade.
So, you were up over $19,000 in metatrader while you were flat. What you’re saying is that you lost $19,000 on the hedge, and when you closed it, you were “up” $19,000 when you took the hedge off.
I don’t know about you, but if I saw a system with an equity curve that hadn’t moved in awhile but showed open profit of $19,000, this means you lost $19,000 somewhere else. Go figure.
