Morning all
A quick question to which I think I know the answer, but just want to confirm: Is it possible to trade two fx signallers on an fxcm broker account? I would say no because orders would cancel each other out if they take opposing positions. Unless autotrade has a clever way of managing this?
Thanks and regards
Max
This is not a problem since fxcm supports simultaneous long and short positions in the one currency pair in the one account (I can’t remember the technical term for this).
Many thanks Zsolt
FXCM calls it Hedging but it is not supported. If you’re long 10K EUR/USD in system A and short 10K EUR/USD in system B then you will be flat in your account, exactly like Futures or Stocks.
You can trade as many systems as you want from a single account.
Francis
I’d like to clarify Francis’ post a tiny bit.
There is no need to use the so-called “hedging” feature because C2’s Gen2 AutoTrading is smart enough to figure out that if System A is long 10 and System B is short 10, then your trading account should be flat. (And yes, it is smart enough to figure out all the arithmetic permutations – not just those cases where you wind up flat!)
In other words, to repeat what Francis said, you can certainly trade as many systems as you like in one single account… even if they trade the same symbols.
Thanks. Yes, I see that - but the main thing is that the FXCM does not reject opposite orders, and that’s the main thing.
Ok, then the sales rep lied to me 
I tryed to run 2 systems on my real account but dasn’t work . if you don’t use hedging , one position will be closed from the opposite , if you use hedging your all positions will remain open !!!
Lukely with help of Bulldogfx gay i was able to close all positions in my real account and turned immedaiately to NO hedging .
Conclusion you have to run each strategy on one account with no hedging function .
If you want trade many strategies you have to open many accounts.
Sorry i wrote gay ,but must be guy .
Sorry for my written englisch
Hi Giovanni,
It works perfectly. You can trade as many systems as you want from a single account.
The problem was that despite our warnings, you got FXCM to enable the hedging feature in your account and it got out of sync. I’m glad our intervention solved the issue quickly because as you saw the hedging feature can wreak havoc in your positions–none will ever be closed.
One position closing the other is how trading normally works. Let’s take a practical example: let’s say you buy a wife and then sell her; you are now single (you’re flat in trading terms). Hedging would like you to believe that you now have one ‘long’ wife plus another ‘short’ wife. Some may find this fun but my point is we consider you to be flat so having multiple strategies that offset each other is fine.
Francis
"Let’s take a practical example: let’s say you buy a wife and then sell her;"
Which exchange has wife futures? Can we pick up a couple of kids also?
If this is a “practical” example, I would hate to see an impractical example LOL
Ok Francis , i undertsand but in this case you’ll take the losses before they tauch the stop loss and you’ll be flat wituout following the other strategie.
I mean : i am long on gbp with one strategie and i am loosing 50 pips but still not thached the stop loss …then the other strategie goes short gbp , at this point the position will be closed taking the loss too early before thouching the stop loss and i dont have also the short position open …in this case i cannot follow 2 strategies untilll the end because we’ll have anticipated closure of positions and also no positions in the second strategie…i hope i was clear for what i have in my mind…
No, Giovanni. You are incorrect.
Imagine two scenarios. Scenario 1: You trade two systems in one FXCM trading account. Scenario 2: You trade two systems, but each in a separate account.
Now let’s look at each scenarion in turn. Scenario 1: You start following System A. You go long 10 GBP, and start losing money on your position. System B then goes short GBP, in the same account. Thus you actually flatten your position to get a net zero position.
Scenario 2: Here you have two FXCM accounts, and trade one system in each account. In your first account, System A goes long and starts losing money. Now, in your second account, System B takes a separate short position.
Guess what? In both cases, you have made EXACTLY THE SAME amount of money. Whether you mentally “recognize” a loss by closing a position or not is immaterial. If you have two accounts and are net flat in the combined two accounts, it’s the same thing as being flat in one account. This is (I hope) a self-evident mathematical truth.
Hi Zsolt,
Thanks for your input on all of the forums.
Standard FXCM accounts have the hedging facility, so I don’t think the sales person lied to you.
It is just Bulldog accounts that don’t support hedging.
How about these two scenarios:
Scenario I: Two separate accounts (Accts 1 & 2), trading two systems (A & B) separately.
Stock (or currency) XYZ takes a path from $11 down to $5.50 and then turns back up to $16 throughout the day.
Acct 1 (system A): When XYZ is on the initial downswing at $10, system A expects a bottom and an upswing, so he goes Long XYZ at $10, but sets a Stop at $5, with a Target of $15. Since by the end-of-day the Stop is not reached (only goes to $5.50), and the Target is exceeded, XYZ Sells-to-Close at $15 for a $5 (or 50%) profit.
Acct 2 (system B): System B has a different strategy, sees the downswing, and wants to profit from it. So when the downswing begins, he goes Short XYZ at $9, with a Target of $6, but with a Stop at $12. On its way to $5.50, XYZ hits his Target at $6, and Buys-to-Close, for a $3 (or 50%) profit.
Both Acct 1 (system A) and Acct 2 (system B) realize 50% profits, and if you’ve allocated your capital evenly between the two, you will see a combined 50% profit.
Scenario II: Same systems A & B, but in a combined account. Upon the downswing, system A Buys at $10, and then a little while later system B Sells at $9. The net is a $1 (or 10%) loss.
Scenario I (separate accounts) give a 50% profit, but Scenario II gives a 10% loss. These results are not equal.
Is this a correct interpretation of how the auto-trading works? I apologize if I may be missing something?
Sorry… my example was more stock (or option) related, as opposed to currencies. However, I think the flow/logic would be the same (with more leverage).
This is not a correct interpretation of how autotrading works. In Scenario II it will have 50% profit too. Both systems will be treated as if they were in separate accounts, even though they are actually in the same account.
This is what will happen in Scenario II:
System A buys to open at $10 (net position: long)
System B sells to open at $9 (net position: flat)
System B buys to close at $6 (net position: long)
System A sells to close at $15 (net position: flat)
The net profit is -$1 + $9 = $8, which equals the $3 + $5 of Scenario I.
Dan:
Jules has it right. What you forgot to do in your “Scenario II” is to finish the sequence of orders.
This gets a bit confusing, as C2’s nomenclature is “BTO” or Buy to Open, and “STC” or Sell to Close. However, when sent to the broker, the orders are simply Buy or Sell. In your example, System B’s opening order is closing System A, and System B’s subsequent closing order is - in effect - reopening System A.
Throwing together several systems trading long term and short term can give a confusing result. But autotrading does handle it correctly.
Hans.
Jules & Hans -
If AT follows through with the remaining trades, then great!
Part of my confusion may be that I have tried to manually trade multiple futures systems in an OptionsXpress account, and OX will not let you… it won’t let you have Long and Short contracts at the same time.
Why would you want to? In order to do the same thing discussed in my scenarios above, and allow the broker to automatically handle the closing trades (Limit and Stop-Loss, one-cancels-other).
(BTW, I believe this is the clarification that Giavanni was seeking in an earlier post.)
Thanks for the clarification!
Uh, no… You would not have long and short positions at the same time. System A may be long, System B may be short. But all your broker sees is a buy and then a sell. You are not long and short, you are flat! If System B gets stopped out of it’s short position, that stop order would be a buy. Then you would be long - ie: you would be flat System B, but long System A. All your broker would see is the buy stop. Your broker has no way of knowing that you are trading two separate systems, all he sees is a potentially psychotic sequence of buys and sells.
But you are never both long and short!
Hans.
