C2 vs, learning on your own

I think I am ready to give up on doing this myself and select a good Strategy to follow on C2. I have had success ,had failure, and generally just feel worn out trying to develop my own trading strategy.

please comment if you can relate. What was it like to give up the control of when to enter, exit, etc…?

much appreciate any input


Hi John,
Funny, I’m a bit the opposite, I’m more convinced than ever of my trading ideas, but am not sure I should keep paying C2 to list them when I don’t get (or frankly, yet, deserve) subscribers. I restarted everything a couple months ago (during volpocalypse), and I’m hanging on here to build a track record and see if I can’t get some subscribers after some proven time. I figure the $99/month now will get recouped fairly readily even if I only get a few subscribers, or if not well then at least the payment is encouragement to hang out in the forums here and learn a few things from both trade leaders and investors.
So I’m sorry your experience has worn you out… mine has energized me!

hmm… now that’s a different slant. I guess I have just lost confidence. I am no rookie either, I have been investing and trading for over 20 years. I really do not know what to do at this point, but I am sure that trading, being glued to the screen, reviewing charts, studying, etc… just aint working for me. Maybe I use C2 along with my own ideas.

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Its never easy trading for others and producing a track record is even harder since all kinds of metrics are displayed for others to criticize.

If you don’t have defined rules to enter/exit a trade it will be extremely difficult and stressful to trade regularly and successfully.

Traders will also have losing periods since there is no holy grail in trading. Its a matter of being able to survive the losing periods without wiping out a large percentage of the capital that is important too.

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that’s because those traders wont study from Dr. Martin Gale.

again, I am looking for investors comments that have made the jump from doing it on their own to utilizing C2 strategies. What is the conversion like? Did you have a hard time following the strategy and leaving your ideas aside?

Looks like C2 will be adding a trading screen with chart, which will help make it faster for developers to make a trade. Also you can upload your trades from TDameritrade. Not everybody likes using IB, I personally like using ThinkorSwim trading software.

trading certainly isn’t for everybody

Now thats funny @OSUTIA! lol…

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John, I feel your pain and can relate. I offered systems over a decade ago, realized I didn’t know what I was doing, then started years of following other people’s systems. That also led to frustration, in fact, probably even more frustration than doing it myself. I lost money over that time, but not much.

But here’s the twist: in that time of following other people, I developed some new ideas of my own which I’m now applying to a strategy I launched 3 months ago. And I’m the happiest now than I’ve ever been.

I could write a novel about all my failed subscriptions – about the particular human psychology that prevents us from making money here – but that’s for another thread. We’ve hashed and rehashed all those reasons anyway, so it would be boring to go through them again.

I guess my answer to your question is that it’s better to invent your own system and apply it. If you can. I think the happiest people on here are the developers, not the subscribers.


Thank you very much @MarkAmspoker for your interesting post. I think that many of us who participated in C2, experienced the same feelings.

Hi Mark,
Is this your new strategy? Must be!

Nice start, congrats! Except I’m confused, in the detailed record it shows 48 trades, all winners no losers. Except in the #trades and %profitable stats, it shows 66 trades and 72.7% profitable. Where are the losers in the detail listing? Is it a C2 display issue? Strange.

But congrats on the strong start with your new strategy. Swing (and day) trades with mostly reasonable trade size management (some small stakes, some much larger) and no buying-on-the-way-down displayed here.


Thanks V1 - but as the description says, I don’t encourage anyone to subscribe until it has 1 year of results. If C2 isn’t going to enforce a rule like that (and why would they, they have to make money somehow), then at least developers should.

I also won’t comment on what you are seeing. Come back in 9 months for a detailed description of the strategy, if it is still viable. Seems like it will be, but I for one want more proof.


@MarkAmspoker, that is one of the most responsible comments I have heard from a developer! Usually most are not patient enough to wait 6 months let alone 1 year. And on top of that the ludicrous monthly sub fees that are asked with little or no proof of profit.


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Hello @JohnDesey

I can very much relate with your situation because I had a little crisis in trading forex 1-2 years ago and started to follow other forex traders (on other websites).
My doubts didn´t came from bad results but from being aware of the uncertainty of discretional trading. (if you like see my track reckord from back then here https://www.myfxbook.com/members/FXRiskControl/der-social-trader/1781432) So I watched all these quantitative models performing well and I tried them. Of course I knew enough already to not fall for the martingale and scalping systems nor for the strategies with manipulated track record.
However, I learned that survivorship bias was at work like crazy with all these imported broker histories (big advantage of C2, here you cannot pull something out of a hidden broker account that went well by chance). So I conducted my own quantitative research of the markets. The result was that I completely dropped forex trading because there is absolutely no edge to be discovered. However, on other markets like equities, volatility, commodities etc. you can actually find opportunities so I focus on those these days. (I have 2 systems here as a developer but I don´t want to promote them here unless I´m asked for it)

Though the biggest lesson I learned is that discretional trading is the hardest but also the most rewarding type of trading in the long run. A trained and focused human brain is just an extremely powerful tool. On top of that algorhythmic trading is just as insecure as discretional trading. If you think about it, you never know if and when a system stops working in advance. To beat the market you have to take greater risk in one form or another.

In whatever type of trader crisis you are currently I encourage you to step back, look at what is going wrong and what you need to fix it. Maybe you tend to overleverage? Or you trust your statistics blindly? Or are you too emotional so you make all kind of actions that are not part of your strategy? Go deep in conversation with yourself, you can fix it if you want.

On the other hand if you don´t feel like investing more time into refining your trading skills, also don´t invest too heavyly into other people´s systems. There are “safe” long term opportunities coming up not so far in the future and you will want to have cash for that under any circumstance. Also ask questions to the developers of systems that interest you. You have 20 years of experience so you discover easily if someone knows a thing or two. Good luck!

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Dare I ask what these are? We all want to know.

Hello @JohnDesey

I can hear it in your voice that you really don’t want to give up. You feel frustrated but this decision isn’t your first choice. Trading is completely different than what most think. It’s mostly in your head. Watching YouTube to see how others do it is probably going to lead you down a long rabbit hole. 90% + of traders lose. Based on those statistics, odds are you’re listening to someone that is part of that 90%. Going from indicator to indicator isn’t going to solve your problems. They’re only tools. They’re helpful but have their place. Jumping into different trading chat rooms won’t fix your issues. What works for the guy running the chat room won’t work for you. Your beliefs are different. Your values are different. You view the world completely different than he does. He has chosen a system that suites his personality. You’ll get different results even if you piggy back the trades. Buying a complete trading system won’t work either. The systems that I’ve seen that are profitable aren’t for sale. Meaning you can’t buy a system, push a button to have your computer automatically trade and turn it into your own personal ATM.

If you want to be a trader. If you REALLY want to be a trader, send me a private message. I’ll work with you. The setups aren’t going to be mine they’ll be yours. Trades will be yours. I would give you advice and guidance. You’ll start a strategy and pay $39/month to maintain that strategy on C2. You will ask $0.00. This would be a learning and transformation experience. This wouldn’t be a time for you to worry about making money. Not now at least. You must also follow directions even if they don’t make sense. Privately you’ll have to provide details to me about your setups (don’t worry I’m not interested in them). You’ll have to provide details of what you’ve tried and been through. And you’ll have to provide details about your account dollar amount in your real account (not account numbers just balance).

What do I want in return? Nothing. I don’t want you to pay me. I don’t want a cut of anything. I want absolutely nothing in return. All I ask is you be open to learning. You’ve been doing this for 20 years and it’s still not working.

Why am I doing this? For one, I’m in a good mood this morning. I read your post and it sounded authentic and I don’t like to see people fail. The second reason is this. When I first started out, I had some VERY good mentors. Without them, I wouldn’t be here. I guess I’m paying it forward.

If this all sounds good, send me a private message. If it’s not what you’re looking for, I understand that too.

Good day


PayoffMatrix >> Good style!! (Not sure this is the right expression in English)

@JohnDesey, learn from @O5355p how to be a developer/strategy owner since his 4 strategies are making alot of money from sub fees with a total of 3k combined monthly with lots of subscribers. I really envy him!

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This would be an exercise in trading and fixing his issues. Nothing to do with running a strategy. This is strictly to get him to become profitable. What he does with that afterwards is up to him.